set the channel description: Finance hacks, best practices, investments. Recent articles have mentioned to feel truly wealthy in Seattle you must have a net worth of $2.4M. Let this be a place to share personal finance knowledge, tips, and practices to ensure financial freedom.
Hello all, I've created this channel as a place to discuss and collaborate on best personal finance practices. Personally, I have much learning to do. I hope that we can better each other and learn from each other along the way, as it is sort of a daunting task to best invest in yourself and plan for your future.
I've been a bit obsessed with this topic the past couple of weeks so I'm happy to see interest in it pop up here! I've been reading this blog almost every night for a couple of weeks now and it has really got my money wheels turning. I know I'll probably never live as frugally as MMM himself but there are some great lessons/reminders in there and he actually has a pretty fun way of writing too. I've just started from the beginning and worked chronologically since I eventually want to read them all but you can also search around for specific topics.
First post ever:
The first post someone showed me:
Things I'm currently doing to improve my financial game:
1) Cracking down on my budget. Even if you consider budgeting a huge chore, you should do it every once in a while to get a grip on where your money is going. Personally, my biggest opportunity for improvement is the "Food and Dining" category. Currently, I'm on track to cut this category by more than 50% month over month but I'll get back to you guys at the end of the month with my results.
2) Get a grip on your retirement fund. You can put $18,000/year into your 401k plus an additional $5500/year into your Roth IRA (The awesome part about this account is that you pay taxes on your initial investment but don't have to pay any taxes on the interest you accrue as it sits in there over the years). This is money you are stashing away for later that you never even have to see. You can distribute the money across several index funds and you will be making way more interest than you would if you let it sit in your savings account. If you're worried about not being able to get to the money when you need it for big purchases down the road (house, car, etc), then invest time in #3 but keep putting money in here until you get that figured out so that you don't get used to having the money in your pocket.
3) Research other ways to invest. I'm in the process of deciding where I want to open an investment account. Currently, it seems like my choices are Vanguard or Fidelity but I want to do a little more research before I pull the trigger. After that, my plan is to put a portion of each paycheck into one or more index funds as these will generate interest for me more aggressively than a savings account in a bank.
If anyone has feedback for me or wants to share ways that they are exploring financial awesomeness, I would love to bounce more ideas!
The "shockingly simple math behind early retirement" is a great, inspiring read!
One assumption in it that I'm shaky on, though, is that the $$ you need to live each month doesn't ever increase. Yeah I am happy living on very little right now, but 15 years from now I might want a much bigger place and - if shit is really crazy - have kids. Which sounds like a death trap, financially.
Yeah, this guy is definitely on the extreme end of the spectrum. Him and his wife now have a kid and still live on $23,943.44 as of 2015 (He includes his budget toward the bottom of this april fools post: ). He does things that you and I will probably never do though like only using a couple gallons of gas a year. He literally bikes everywhere. But basically him and his wife have just decided the freedom to do whatever they want all day is more important than other luxuries in life. The crazy part is he got rich from the ads on his blog and still spends less than us every year. Although, judging by the picture of him in his kitchen in that april fools post, his house is pretty sweet (probably renovated everything himself though since he doesn't have to go to work).
Here's a little background on how he got to "early retirement":
Here's how he defines early retirement:
And here's why he is trying to teach people how to save instead of invest:
Keep reading!! It's fascinating stuff and will get you wanting to sprout a mini money mustache.
My manager sent me to MMM a couple years ago, but at that time I wasn't thinking about this stuff seriously. So I'll have to give it another go now that I'm mentally ready.
You want to try to find an investment account with very minimal fees. I just opened an investment account with Wealthfront (). They have a super low fee of only 25bps (0.25%). They don't charge for the first $10,000 of assets under management. There are no account-opening feeds, withdrawal or account-closing fees, trading/commission feeds, account transfer fees, etc etc. And it's great if you don't want to do the research on which index fund you should do (I certainly do not). You do a survey which evaluates 1) what are your investment goals, and 2) your level of risk aversion. Then they handle all the investments.
You can open different types of accounts. I just have a personal investment account right now that I throw $1250/month. I was going to look into the Roth IRA (that you mentioned @brandon) next (via Wealthfront). If I decide against that I will dump more into the person account each month. I don't really understand what the differences are between "retirement" accounts and general investment accounts. If anyone knows please share.
I have just over $1000 in individual common stock that I manage via Robinhood, but that is mostly for fun.
Amazon's 401k matching sucks so I match up to their max and then put most of my money into the Wealthfront account. I've moved half of my savings over and will be moving the rest as I finish off paying my student loans.
So far Wealthfront has been super easy to use and makes sense to me. I came across it because I asked my team what they do in this space and most of them said Wealthfront. Take a look and if you are going to open up an account there, I can send you a referral and then you will get an additional $5k managed for free by them.
Great! Glad to hear you are doing research in this field as well. I will definitely check out Wealthfront and do some of my own research but it sounds like a solid option. I'll follow up with you about that referral in the next couple weeks.
I too need more information about the difference between a retirement account and standard investing. I think that there are certain benefits to the retirement account (like employer matching) but there are restriction on it as well (like I think you get penalized somehow if you remove the money from the account before you are retired). Hoping someone else knows more than us and can pitch in some insights though.
Sounds like you're off to a great start though! And I highly recommend you give MMM another shot. A regular dose of him will keep you honest about your spending and general consumption habits. I really like how he very regularly puts everyday purchases in a 10 year perspective. Really helps you focus on the long term impact of your seemingly harmless transactions.
I dig all of the long responses! 😄 I haven't heard about or read MMM, but I'll be sure to give him a read!
The main things I do are very similar to those that Brandon listed: weekly budgeting (label transactions correctly, evaluate where I am on by monthly budgets), every month see if I can bring down any of my budgets for a particular category at all, and put as much as I possibly can into 401k and HSA. Other less regular things I do is slowly educate myself about different types of retirement accounts, funds, investments, etc... I'm sure this channel will help with that!
I could not agree more that stock index funds with the lowest fees possible are great places to put a lot of your investments. We are young and can weather the ups and downs of the market. I just make sure to keep enough in less volatile places for the big purchases coming in the next 2-5 years (house down-payment, etc...).
What is HSA? I just looked it up but haven't heard anything about it previously.
I was also thinking about a house down-payment and was trying to decide where I should put that money. You think it's best to just collect that money in your savings account just to be safe? Maybe add money from the index fund(s) if it's in a good place when you are ready to buy?
HSA is a health savings account. It is part of the health plan I get through work. If you have a "high-deductible" health plan, then you can get an HSA (even on your own, not through your employer). I'm sure some article will explain the pros and cons better than I, but my general understanding is that it is pre-tax tax-deductible, meaning you don't pay taxes on what you put in AND say you make 80k, and put 3k into your HSA per year, then you will be taxed as if you only made 77k. You can also take money out of it for medical purposes tax-free. It also grows tax-free, so its interest is tax-free I believe.
I use fidelity for my 401k, b/c that's what work set us up with. However, my 401k investments are in a mix of Fidelity and Vanguard index funds.
Regarding the "safe" place: I have some money in plain bank CD's (certificate of deposit). This is money you semi-promise to your bank that you will leave there for a period of time 6mo, 12mo, 18mo, etc... in exchange for a higher interest rate. Still lower than market rates, but much higher than plain savings interest rates. In case of an emergency and you need the money, there is some fee for taking it out before the agreed upon date, but it's not huge. I haven't done research into other safe places, which I should do, so I can't say this is definitely the best way.
When I get to the point where I have enough that isn't going into my 401k, HSA, or "emergency/safe funds", I will likely open a vanguard account. I like them. I don't have anything against Fidelity or anything else, but I have always liked Vanguard's philosophy.
So in regards to HSA, if I just have a $10 deductible on a prescription a month, I could just put $120/year into there to cover that. However, I could alternatively accumulate some "rainy day" funds in there so if I ever break my arm or get the flu, I'll have dedicated funds for going to the ER or extra doctor visits. Am I understanding that correctly? I think I might be eligible for something like this through work so I should look it up.
Thanks for the tip on CD's. I should definitely configure a percentage of my savings to live in those since I don't plan on spending it anyway. Do you have to go to the bank to do this or can you move the money around online? (in your experience)
Yep, that's the idea of an HSA. You are spot on with the rainy day.
I was able to create a CD online. It just took a couple of minutes.
Cool, I know what I'm doing tonight! haha I'm looking through my benefits pdf at work trying to find info on the HSA fund. Do you know if it would be offered through the health insurance provider or something else?
Oh, I think it might be offered through Empower Retirement which is my 401k management provider. I'll have to take in the app later.
Mine was part of my health plan. Some of the options we were given had HSAs, other didn't.
Ah, I see. Ok, I'll look into it. Thanks for the tips! This has been very helpful 👍
It sounds like a couple of you guys are good at budgeting (or at least monitoring your expenses). I am so bad at monitoring what I spend my money on. Usually just move most of my checking account to bills, loans, and then savings, and make sure I don't spend the rest by the end of month. Is there tools you guys use that automatically categorize and label your expenses? Or do you go in and manually look at your bank statements to categorize each item? I don't think I will ever be good at this if I have to do it manually....
I use mint. You hook it up to your various account(s), it pulls your data, and gives you basic categorization, tools for setting budgets, etc...
But god damn, my worst category is "Alcohol & Bars"
Make sure to correct the categories it assigns to your transactions if needed. It guesses wrong a good amount of the time.
BECU has a built in money manager kind of like mint that does a pretty good job of auto categorizing things. I still try to read through the transactions at least once a week and recategorize as needed since it's not always right. Although lately I've been feeling like it's easier to just check it once every night since there is only ever a transaction or two to take care of.
This is a big change for me. Kinda hard. I've been avoiding doing this because I know where my money goes and I'm not especially proud. So seriously monitoring it is... very honest and heartbreaking. But needed to get what I want most in life.
Yeah, I know what you mean. I was kind of feeling the same way. I'm trying to be extra hard on myself for a month or two so I can see what my potential is and then I'll probably relax it a bit to hopefully land in a happy medium. You're right that it can be easier not to look though! This channel can be our support group 😀 When we want spend money we know we shouldn't, we can try to talk each other out of it! (or atleast talk our way down from getting the top shelf whisky) haha
@brandon I like your idea of categorizing transactions every day. I find it especially useful, since splitting stuff with Steph makes it harder to look back a week later on transactions and figure out what was my portion vs hers and what has been paid back to who.
yeah, I know what you mean. It's easier said than done though haha I did not check my transactions yesterday. Although, I don't think I had any 🤔
I believe the best place to start when it comes to money management is understanding and seeing where your money goes. Then the next steps can be to set budgets, etc... But first you gotta see it. So using any tool that let's you categorize your expenses and can tell you how much you spent in different categories (e.g. Groceries, restaurants, lunch at work, etc...) is the best first step.
^^^ Yeah, this is the truth. Don't worry Kyle, food and alcohol is my biggest problem area right now too. Kelli and I were eating/drinking out a lot and I was getting lunch with my coworkers on a pretty regular basis. I haven't eaten out for lunch once this month though. I just bring a frozen lunch. It doesn't taste as good as getting Poke with my coworkers but all the extra money I see in my bank account feels even better 😏
Here's a MMM article I read the other day about drinking. I'm not sure I'll be as good about my drinking habits as he is right off the bat but I enjoyed the lecture on ordering drinks at bars.
@spkaplan Quick question for you regarding CDs. If I start an account with a 12 month term, can I add to it? If not, how do you make regular contributions to this sort of "backup fund". I don't think you'd want to be creating new CDs every other month.
I don't believe you can add money to a CD. It's basically treated as a savings account that you cannot touch for the length of the term. For that downside, you get an increased interest rate.
Ok, thanks! That's kind of what I was thinking but was hopeful that I could just continue to add to it as long as I didn't withdrawal.
Wishful thinking I suppose. But I don't think it's compounded monthly so I don't even know how the interest would work now that I think about it.
Does anyone know the average interest rate on a CD?
I don't know what the average is but I just looked up BECU's today. It looks like I'll get 0.5% for 3-5 months, 0.55% for 6-11 months, and 0.6% for 12-17 months. All the way up to 60 months at 1.3%. The numbers aren't that inspiring if you ask me. Especially when I look at the interest I've been making on my 401k this year. Seems like I could make my money work a lot harder investing in an index fund instead.
Okay yeah that's what I thought I remembered from my Boy Scouts Personal Finance Merit Badge (lol). Don't do CDs.
They aren't terrible, but definitely not very viable in this economy. If the bank is paying a higher amount to you, they are making an even higher amount with your money. i.e. you can make more money investing more wisely. CDs just require zero thought and effort.
Agreed. They absolutely are not what you should use as your main investments. But if you plan on keeping some money in your savings account for rainy day kind of stuff over the next couple of years, it doesn't hurt to out it in a CD. That is what I am using them for.
I'm not sure I'd want to put my rainy day funds in a CD, as I'd have to pay a fee to take it out if that rainy day comes. I'd say, put money you plan to use for a car/house/large investment sometime in the foreseeable future in a CD.
I agree that rainy day fund is probably the wrong term. Your savings account makes more sense for that. Putting house down payment money in one makes sense though.
I definitely agree on the house down payment, new car, etc… However, depending on how likely you think a rainy day is to come in your personal situation, I still think putting it in a CD isn’t a bad idea. My CD has ~11x better interest rate than plain savings, and given it is unlikely a rainy day will come, I am willing to take the risk that I will need to pay a penalty to withdraw the funds. I think this is a case-by-case thing though, and either way has it’s obvious pros.
If ETFs beat CD rates, what is the reasoning to not put all your money in ETFs rather than some in both?
I’m not familiar with ETF’s. Please teach 🙂 I’m also googling them right now haha
I use ETFs and Index Funds interchangeably. Not sure if this is correct use though
Ah gotcha. My reasoning for keeping some money out of index funds and the stock market in general is incase of the kind of a market crash. Incase the market crashes, I want to have some funds that aren’t affected by it for things that I plan to do in the next 5ish years (house, maybe a car, etc…), since the market would potentially take a while to recover. To be clear, I still have most of my money in index funds and the stock market and other volatile investments. For the most part, it’s good for people around our age to have lots of investments in the stock market, b/c we have a long time until we NEED the money (retirement), so we can weather a stock market crash. But incase that was to happen, I like to know i have at least some funds that wouldn’t be devastated by a crash.
I see. I guess I haven’t thought of the stock market crashing, which is naive of me. That would be awful
Yeah, it would be especially scary, b/c this time we are actually in the workforce. The last one, I was aware of, but thankfully didn’t really feel the effect of it.
Yeah, the key point here being that a CD always guarantees you your money. It's just a bank account you promise not to touch for a while. There's no fluctuation/turbulence. Has anybody looked into Government bonds? Isn't that a thing? Where you give the feds some money for a while and they promise you a certain interest rate? (similar to a CD in that way)
@spkaplan When you say most of your money is still tied up in volatile investments, you're mostly speaking to your 401k, right? I think you mentioned before that you haven't invested in anything outside of that yet but plan on opening a Vanguard account eventually.
I haven't looked into government bonds, but definitely something to read up on....it's on my to do list now haha.
@brandon yeah, mainly 401k, because I believe mine is like 95+% stocks. And once I go beyond that, to likely the vanguard account, it will be mostly stocks too, not many bonds. My understanding is as you get closer to retirement you should transitions to a higher ratio of bonds to stocks, because they are safer.
Yeah, I'm at 97% stocks spread across four different funds right now myself. That's my understanding of the stock/bond ratio as well.
Let me know what you find on government bonds, and I'll check them out too if I have a chance this weekend.
Guys just let Wealthfront manage all this for you
They will invest different portions of your funds according to your risk profile, but you also have the ability to go in and allocate differently and open up various types of investment accounts
They have a super low fee of only 25bps (0.25%). They don't charge for the first $10,000 of assets under management. There are no account-opening feeds, withdrawal or account-closing fees, trading/commission feeds, account transfer fees, etc etc
Yeah, Wealthfront looks pretty solid. But Sam and I were talking specifically about our work sponsored 401k accounts. Can you rig Wealthfront up to manage that as well? My work provides me with an account here () and it has a pretty nice UI and help system. Wouldn't mind getting Wealthfront's opinion too though if that's an option. I was just thinking I would use Empower for my retirement fund and Wealthfront for my other investment funds. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the situation here though.
I haven’t tried hooking up my 401k stuff with Wealthfront. Will be spending Black Friday tidying all of my finances up. I still need to hook up Wealthfront with my Robinhood stock and my Amazon stock
@brandon that was a good quick summary read. I like the set and forget part more, personally
Alright, keep us posted!
Just yesterday, I was able to sync my Empower Retirement account up with my BECU Money Manager account so that I can see my current retirement balance along with all my other assets (bank accounts and debit/credit cards). This is pretty sweet because now I can keep a closer eye on it. I'd be interested to know if Mint offers something similar. Not sure if it has as wide of a feature base though as it's marketed as more of a budget tool.
Nice! I am loving the engagement with all this finance stuff
I read up on IRA’s yesterday. Definitely going to create one in addition to 401k.
Yeah, I have one set up through work in addition to my 401k. My dad was telling me that even though you pay taxes straight up on those accounts, they are still cool because you don't have to pay tax on the interest when you pull the money out. So, I figured it's a good one to rack up some money in early on. That's also probably why the annual limit for those accounts is so much lower.
Hmmm, I might check out Drop but I don't see anything too intriguing in there personally.
Article on ETFs (Index Funds) vs Mutual Funds:
The way it's been explained to me is that a mutual fund is managed by humans and ETFs are managed by a computer/algorithm. One tries to predict the market while the other one just reacts to it.
If you already have a large sum of money in your savings account ($10,000+), consider putting this money in a "Money Market" account with your bank. It offers a higher dividend rate than a standard savings account as long as you keep the balance above a minimum amount and there are no fees to open an account of this type. Since I haven't yet decided on a shorter term investment strategy I'm confident about, this was a great quick solution that increased my dividend rate by 500%.
I also considered just doing a CD account at this time but to really get a good rate, I was going to need to open the account with another bank and I'm not quite ready to do that.
By moving the money to this money market account today, I have increased my dividends and still have the ability to drain the account tomorrow with no penalties if I choose to do so.
I have also come to realize that BECU really doesn't have very competitive rates for any of it's account types. Some money market accounts give you over 1% returns but mine only offers 0.5%.
If anyone else does research on this, let me know what kind of rates you can get through your bank.
Capitol One seems to have good rates across the board. Anyone use them?
I've been fortunate enough to be grand-fathered in to a Money Market savings account since I was in high school, with no minimum balance needed. However my interest rate on that is much less than yours (it's ~0.25%)
The rate in these savings accounts don't even keep up with inflation. I want nearly all of my money outside of these accounts and in investment accounts.
Related to having all of your cash in investments, I really like this idea in the mmm post. I had never thought of this possibility before, specifically the line of credit part.
That's cool you have had one with no minimum for so long. Kind of seems like it defeats the purpose for the bank! haha
And I agree, I want most of my money elsewhere as well. However, I've also heard that it's good to keep a couple months rent or so in non-volatile assets in case of emergencies so be careful. Now, I admit I have too much money in this "safe space" right now, but I haven't become confident enough to put it somewhere else yet (still feel like I need to do more homework) so by putting it here, I'm at least making more interest than I was.
@spkaplan I am so happy to see someone else referencing mmm!! I love his idea about using the line of credit to pay off the credit card immediately since the interest rate is lower. It's a no brainer! (Even though I hadn't already thought of it myself haha)
@brandon I've been reading his blog posts like crazy haha! It might have not been 100% clear why I posted that particular blog post. I liked his idea of using a line of credit for rainy days, instead of keeping your cash cushion. This way you can accomplish keeping most of your money out of savings accounts and such, but still have some security if you suddenly have to make a large payment for something. By default, keeping the line of credit at 0$ makes it free to have until you actually need to use it.
I totally agree with that post and that’s how I’ve been thinking about this whole rainy day fund thing. If your credit line is more than 2 months rent, just use that as your emergency fund and get most of your money out of the checking/savings account
I'm going to look into lines of credit. The goal would obviously be to almost never use the line of credit and pay it off asap when you do use it.
Yeah, that makes sense to me too I guess. My only fear would be that your money is caught up in investments that are in a bad state and would result in losses if you pull out. But I guess you just have to accept that loss if the emergency arises. In the end it's chump change compared to eventual overall portfolio.
Yup, chump change indeed. Gotta keep that long term mindset!
Question: is the line of credit MMM referencing different from a credit card line of credit? If so, I might be conflating the two
I know my bank offers a line of credit just based on your credit history I believe. I think it's a lower interest rate than a credit card but you don't get a card for it. Also, if you own a large asset such as a house, you can use it as leverage/collateral to open an even lower interest line of credit.
I see! That seems like an even smarter way to do this emergency fund stuff. Gotta look into that
It is definitelyyy better if you have a home equity loan, rather than a regular consumer loan, because the interest rate is much much lower. But if the line of credit is for rare rainy days anyway, than it's probably fine (I want to verify this) having a higher rate since it will rarely be used and you won't leave a balance on there for long.
Hmm using a home equity loan as a rainy day fund seems a bit odd (due to the naming). I figure you’d need to prove to the bank it’s for a home to get one?
Nope, a home equity loan just means you are backing the loan with your house.
Ohhhhh I see. So we can’t get that quite yet as renters, right?
These are starting to sound much different than what I was thinking (similar to a credit card). These are straight up loans that you can request when needed and you can use at your discretion. Makes sense they’d have lower interest rates.
Am I thinking about this right?
Yeah, so if you can't repay the money, they can take your house. That's why the rate is so much better. You can only use the portion of the house you actually own though I think (if you have a mortgage).
But yeah, a line of credit is direct borrowing from a bank. It's different than a credit card because it's not meant for every day purchases and you don't get a card for it or anything.
Correct, they are just loans (lines of credit) that can can be backed by things like a house (home equity loan) or not backed. Even not backed lines of credit, at least through my credit union, have lower interest rates than my credit card. They are especially great if you have a house to back the loan with, but are totally viable options if you don't. I'm leaning towards going this direction, so I can stop keeping lots of cash in savings. If a huge expense came up, I would pay with it on the line of credit (as some peoples credit card limits aren't high enough to cover a large, unexpected expense), but immediately figure out where to get the cash from to pay off the line of credit (stocks, next pay check, etc...).
I hope that helps clarify.
Yeah, great summary 👍
And I guessed you answered my next question. Which was going to be, after reading this blog post and making this discovery, will you be moving your funds that you were previously storing in CDs, to investment funds instead? Or atleast as soon as you get out of "loss territory" with the CD early withdrawal penalties.
haha that's a bummer that she thought she was investing in stocks just like that. I definitely wouldn't put my retirement money in a money market account xD
Still trying to decide on a investment broker 😩 But maybe I'm just overthinking it 🙄
I recently talked to my uncle who recently came in to a large inheritance and had to figure out where to invest it. He said that after doing some research he settled on charles schwab because they don't take any percentage yield but I'm not sure how it compares to others still. I'm pretty much deciding between these three:
Vanguard
Wealthfront
Charles Schwab
Those are the ones I have heard people vouch for. Does anyone have any additional notes/info about any of these three brokers? All of the comparison artlicles I read just end up having pros and cos for both so maybe I just need to pick one and stick my money in it already but I just want to be sure since this is a decision that may stick with me for quite some time.
Because I use Wealthfront I am personally biased (and motivated to get referrals), but if I were back in your position trying to decide I would comb through the help section / FAQs on those options and see what you like most about each
Let me know which one you go with Brandon. I'm trying to find a broker as well, having similar troubles deciding between the ones I read about.
@keenin Will do. I plan on getting to a conclusion in the next week or so.
@andelink Thanks for the links and referrals. That's nice that they give you 15k managed for free (although you pass that value pretty quickly!). Here's a link comparing Wealthfront and Charles Schwab.
Need to dig in more but it looks like Wealthfront wins overall. However, Wealthfront takes 0.25%/year after the 15k promotion and Charles Schwab never has account fees regardless of your balance.
@brandon one thing to keep in mind is this is a list ranked by how good each brokerage's robo-advisor services are. Do you plan to use your brokerage's advisor services or do it yourself? If you plan to use their advisor services, then totally valid though 👍
Oh, thanks for pointing that out. I'm not sure if I will go with an advisor service or not. I like the idea of managing it myself but I'm afraid it makes more sense to just let the service manage it for you. What do you think? Will you manage your portfolio yourself?
I haven’t completely made up my mind on that yet. I am leaning towards managing myself to keep fees as low as possible (my uncle’s advice).
Yeah, that seems reasonable. Although, looking at the fees, it really doesn't seem too expensive. 0.25%/year seems like a popular rate.
The management it of it is the biggest reason I went with a roboadvisor. I don't want to manage myself. I don't know fuck anything about this stuff and I don't want to spend time learning it because it would take way too much time to become knowledgeable enough to compete with a formal adviser (service or human) who spends their entire life thinking about it. If I believe in technology and particularly the impact of machine learning on services, I can't personally justify trying to manage it myself. #imo
Wealthfront still offers you the ability to open up different accounts on your own. And if you don't like the risk profile they've generated based on your survey responses - which is what they use to diversify and allocate the various components of your portfolio - you can adjust it. Why it works for me.
IRA has been opened, yay! 😄 First significant action I have taken as a result of our discussions. This and the collaboration is great 👍 Let’s keep it up!
@andelink uploaded a file: Bitcoin boom and commented: Shoulda bought bitcoin a year ago...
@andelink commented on @andelink’s file https://soundstack.slack.com/files/U2494HTLP/F86HFLL5Q/imageuploadedfrom_ios.jpg: i'm not brave enough to short bitcoin lol
@andelink commented on @andelink’s file https://soundstack.slack.com/files/U2494HTLP/F86HFLL5Q/imageuploadedfrom_ios.jpg: That 2nd article was an interesting read. I am unsure whether it made me worried or not.
I liked the comment about Foreign/Emerging markets. I had noticed that my Intl investments had been doing significantly better than my US investments:
http://oi68.tinypic.com/2m45ero.jpg
Wonder if should shift more to those, given the articles opinion.
Update to this thread: https://soundstack.slack.com/archives/C7Z30DQBW/p1510956013000571?thread_ts=1510887688.000114&cid=C7Z30DQBW
I was able to successfully link my employer-sponsored 401k account (Vanguard), my Amazon stock awards (Morgan Stanley StockPlan Connect), and my Robinhood investments to Wealthfront. As well as my bank accounts and credit card accounts of course. A nice dashboard of all my stuff. And Mint also hooks up to Wealthfront so that I can use Mint to see everything as well. (edit: I can only see my Wealthfront investment accounts in Mint - not all the other investment stuff like 401k, Robinhood, etc. Need to manually add them in there as well)
@brandon commented on @andelink’s file https://soundstack.slack.com/files/U2494HTLP/F86HFLL5Q/imageuploadedfromios.jpg: Yeah, the second article was not directly related to bitcoin but I still wanted to share. It's a little scary but I'm also a bit excited. It will be a good learning opportunity to really _experience this one. Plus, I haven't really invested my money in the market yet so it could be a good opportunity.
@spkaplan commented on @andelink’s file https://soundstack.slack.com/files/U2494HTLP/F86HFLL5Q/imageuploadedfrom_ios.jpg: I bought some bitcoin, ethereum, lightcoin, and ripple a few months ago. I spent a couple of months reading a lot about cryptocurrency, blockchain, etc… it’s been fun to get an understanding of it. While bitcoin has most of the public’s attention right now, I’m way more excited about ethereum and it’s potential.
Nice what’s the % increase on your bitcoin since you’ve bought some? I haven’t heard of the other ones you mentioned (I’m pretty ignorant of crypto currency in general)
@brandon commented on @andelink’s file https://soundstack.slack.com/files/U2494HTLP/F86HFLL5Q/imageuploadedfrom_ios.jpg: Damnit Sam! Nice work. I'm jealous. I haven't done the homework to feel comfortable buying in to it yet. Could you point me at some resources so that I can start getting learnt?
@keenin commented on @andelink’s file https://soundstack.slack.com/files/U2494HTLP/F86HFLL5Q/imageuploadedfrom_ios.jpg: Ethereum is very interesting. Hard to say which will be a bigger market player/more influential in the long run.
@brandon commented on @andelink’s file https://soundstack.slack.com/files/U2494HTLP/F86HFLL5Q/imageuploadedfrom_ios.jpg: @spkaplan Did you buy equally into all of them or pick favorites based on your predicted potential?
@keenin commented on @andelink’s file https://soundstack.slack.com/files/U2494HTLP/F86HFLL5Q/imageuploadedfrom_ios.jpg: Sam, what platform are you trading on and what are you using to keep track your wallet?
@spkaplan commented on @andelink’s file https://soundstack.slack.com/files/U2494HTLP/F86HFLL5Q/imageuploadedfrom_ios.jpg: @keenin I totally agree that it’s hard to know what is in store in the future.
I primarily bought some to force myself to understand the process and the environment better. It’s like buying stocks, except like 100000% more volatile, so I’m not really doing it as an investment.
@brandon commented on @andelink’s file https://soundstack.slack.com/files/U2494HTLP/F86HFLL5Q/imageuploadedfrom_ios.jpg: How come all of our comments for this thread end up in the channel too. So annoying how that happens once in a while 🙄
@andelink commented on @andelink’s file https://soundstack.slack.com/files/U2494HTLP/F86HFLL5Q/imageuploadedfrom_ios.jpg: +1 to all the comments asking for resources/experience so far. (why is there not a +1 emoji thing)
@andelink commented on @andelink’s file https://soundstack.slack.com/files/U2494HTLP/F86HFLL5Q/imageuploadedfrom_ios.jpg: Yeah the comment feature on photos/files fucking sucks. It should be treated like a thread.
@spkaplan commented on @andelink’s file https://soundstack.slack.com/files/U2494HTLP/F86HFLL5Q/imageuploadedfrom_ios.jpg: @brandon I bought a little bit of bitcoin, ethereum, and lightcoin, b/c they are the easiest to purchase (b/c they are supported by Coinbase). I bought some ripple, b/c I read about a bunch of altcoins and liked the philosophy behind ripple the most. Again, not doing it as an investment, but rather to “support” the ones I think have the most potential and best goals.
@spkaplan commented on @andelink’s file https://soundstack.slack.com/files/U2494HTLP/F86HFLL5Q/imageuploadedfrom_ios.jpg: @keenin I bought BTC, ETH, and LTC on GDAX. GDAX is Coinbase’s basically more professional (also more complicated) trading platform. It is harder to use, but I spent some time reading up on it and it was worth it, b/c it’s free to buy/sell on it, while coinbase has a hefty fee. I then used bittrex to trade BTC for XRP (ripple), as Coinbase/GDAX does not support XRP.
Yea I've been doing some reading on the best platforms to use for trading. It's hard because they don't support all of the alt-coins, like ripple. GDAX looked the best to me when I was researching platforms.
@spkaplan commented on @andelink’s file https://soundstack.slack.com/files/U2494HTLP/F86HFLL5Q/imageuploadedfrom_ios.jpg: Should we make a thread for this? instead of picture comments.
Thanks for doing that Sam. Really looking forward to reading more about it.
Incase anyone missed it: “I will try to pull together the resources I used most heavily. I gotta get some work done now though 😛 so I’ll make a note to send that out later.”
Backbone technology of all cryptocurencies:
Ethereum:
Difference between plain cryptocurrencies (e.g. bitcoin) and ethereum:
Technical details of ethereum:
A guide I followed for trading BTC for various altcoins (e.g. XRP, NEO):
Along the way I watched tons of youtube videos and other articles to find the best explanations of various aspects, so I would recommend some googling of your own.
Yea, I read the white paper on Ethereum. More interested in the process of trading and keeping my currencies secure. Thanks for the articles!
@keenin The last link is a quick and simple guide to trading BTC for alt coin. To get started by buying the big 3, (BTC, ETH, LTC) Coinbase is the place to go, and then check out their GDAX. They make it super simple. With regards to keeping it secure, there are a number of different methods. The most secure is a USB-like device, but I personally think a desktop app is safe enough for not-crazy-large amounts of coin.
Yea, I've seen the USB wallets for cold storage. Also, don't want to accidentally lose the USB with all my monies on it😂
@spkaplan estimate of how many hours you've spent learning?
@andelink 50 (very rough), b/c I have really enjoyed learning about the topic. You definitely don’t need to spend that many if all you want to do is buy some.
BTC has been pretty volatile lately. Thinking of moving some of my coins to ADA.
I am doing simple buy-and-hold on a handful of different coins. I don’t have too much money in it, incase it all flops, but enough that I’ll see a very nice profit if they all sky-rocket and crypto takes over haha
Yea same, just trying to diversify my coin as some coins are intrinsically tied to the value of other coins.
Definitely a good idea 👍 I have some XRP. XRP seems to have a really strong community, ceo, mission etc… behind it.
There are tons of altcoins to potentially buy though, so there are a number of good options
@spkaplan commented on @andelink’s file https://soundstack.slack.com/files/U2494HTLP/F86HFLL5Q/imageuploadedfrom_ios.jpg: I will try to pull together the resources I used most heavily. I gotta get some work done now though 😛 so I’ll make a note to send that out later.
@keenin pinned a message to this channel.
If you are like me and still haven't figured out where to put your short term investments, here's a list of ideas!
I was extremely intrigued by the idea of P2P Lending so I did some additional research on that. It's definitely not where I'll put all my money, but it seems fun and profitable so I'll definitely be checking it out soon. Here's a comparison of the two big players and there is also a video in the link above that is old, but still a good watch.
Idk the first article read like an ad, and listed things like a savings account and a Roth IRA as short term investments
And checking accounts, paying off debt, and “prosper”
Yeah, it's hard to get as excited about short term investments..haha I agree that the options aren't that great and the reading through it can kind of sound like a bummer but they had reasonable explanations for each.
But let's be clear about one thing. Paying off high interest debt is always the best investment you can make. If you have any outstanding debt you should be putting all of your money toward that. Not a savings account, the stock market, or even retirement. Debt should always be the number one priority unless you have a solid place to put your money that will yield higher returns than the interest rate on your loan. Looks like this can be the case for mortgages and student loans but those are the exception.
Oh I see! Prosper is a lending website. I thought his #12 "Bonus Idea - Prosper" was a
1)...
2)...
...
12) Profit!@!!!##%R@$!
type of thing
lol. No, it's a real thing. And its the thing I'm most excited about out of that list. It turns you into the bank and allows you to invest in small portions of hundreds of people's loans. It's crowd-sourced loan funding with built in diversification for lenders! Based on the most recent article I sent, I'll probably end up going with Lending Club, not Prosper though.
I still don't understand how a checking account can be used as an investment channel. Inflation averages ~2% each year. If your savings or checking accounts have less than that, you actually lose purchasing power. And I don't know any savings account that gets above 2% interest earned. And even if it does, 2% is the break-even point. You would want much more than that, but that is just impossible to find.
Am I missing something here?
It's an investment in the sense that it's better than keeping your money in cash in your sock drawer but that's about it. You are absolutely right that it's not even keeping up with inflation. But, it's also non-volatile which is important if you think you might want the money in the next couple years (and the stock market has a 70% chance of crashing haha).
So, what does a short-term investment timeline mean to everyone?
Edit: Is it an "investment" if you just accept direct deposit into your checking account and not do anything with it in a years time?
@brandon re your capital one CD: i don't follow what the part about you don't like. "you can make regular contributions to them" - that seems good ?
To me, a short term investment is money I want to use in the next 5 years or so.
Responding to your "Edit" comment: Saving your money anywhere it accumulates on it's own is technically an investment I suppose. It's a very poor choice for your life savings though! I guess the way I'm starting to think about it is that you should have timeline based tiers of wealth accumulating with portions of your income going to each (although the percentage breakdown will change over the course of your life).
1. Month to Month Budget: This is just enough cash to cover your expenses for a month or so. (Checking account)
2. Emergency/Rainy day fund: This is money you may need access to but you don't plan on it. (CD Fund - High enough interest rate to keep up with inflation and a ~3 month interest penalty for early withdrawal)
3. Short Term Investment (3-5 years): This is the part I'm still trying to figure out. 3-5 years is far enough out that you could make some actual gains by investing it but you don't want to put it anywhere to volatile since poor market conditions may result in the money not being available when you want/need it. (Possibly things like P2P lending and additional CDs but I wish there were better options. I'm also thinking that you can transfer money from long term investments to this if the market allows for it. But you shouldn't count on it.)
4. Long term Investments: This is the Wealthfront, Vanguard, Charles Schwab space where you can really accumulate cash but may have to wait for the right market before choosing to sell assets (Mutual Funds, ETFs, Bonds, Real Estate(?) )
5. Retirement: Similar to long term investments except it's already set up for you and you get cool bonuses like employer matching and untaxed interest (only on Roth IRA). (Diversify across different asset classes with the funds available to you. I have my 401k broken up into 6 partitions at the moment. How about you guys?)
What do you guys think of that sort of breakdown?
Thoughts? Disagreements?
@brandon I really like your tiers of savings! I have started thinking the same way, but it’s SO nice to see it written out! I would make one adjustment though. (pulling from MMM here) Looking at the stock market’s history, it takes roughly a 15 year window of time, selected at any point in recent us stock market history, for the market to always yield earnings. Meaning even some 10-year windows of time incur losses (stock performance at end of 10 year window is worse than beginning of window). This leads me to believe there should be one more tier: the midterm investment: 5-15 year. This would likely be for raising kids and such. I see this as being slightly different than your “long term investments” b/c you would likely want slightly less risk than the long term investments. Long term investments can be, for example, high percentage of stock (or something generally volatile), but the mid-term investments should probably be some more even distribution of stock and bonds (or something that is generally less risky). Thoughts?
Other than that, I LOVE the tiers you have defined. I totally agree with them. Depending on when you need the $$$ from a particular investment should determine what you have it invested in.
@spkaplan Excellent citing of MMM! And I totally agree with your additional investment range. I hadn't thought it through that thoroughly. Thanks for the feedback!
That’s what people used to say (and some still do) about fiat currency not being on the gold standard 😜
The only way a crypto currency, imo, will last long term is if it's backed by fiat currency. Until then, it's gonna just be a fun market that fluctuates based on people perception of it.
Sooooo… what have people been up to in this area recently? Leaned anything new recently? How are things going with your current approach? Really anything haha
I’ve been in set-and-forget mode. Still need to set up an IRA and everyone is making money off crypto except for me so I want to do that soon
I set up investment accounts with both Charles Schwab and Wealthfront and put money in both since I couldn't decide. I very quickly realized that I had no idea what the hell I was doing trying to diversify a portfolio correctly on my own and Wealthfront did a crazy good job right off the bat. I decided I'll gladly pay the small fee to let them handle my money, trade while I'm sleeping, and automatically take advantage of cool features I don't fully understand like tax-loss harvesting to save me money. I've since taken my money out of Charles Schwab and set up monthly deposits for Wealthfront.
That is awesome progress @brandon! This is a standard brokerage account in addition to an IRA you already have from work, right?
Other than that, I've just set up a 5 year CD emergency fund with a couple months worth of budget in it and have just been high on crypto (however I think I've done a good job of not getting excited and over investing since it is SO tempting). I think my next financial exploration will be in something fun like lending club for short term gains.
Yeah, it's a standard brokerage account. I'm racking up both the 401k and IRA accounts through work already.
Oh, and I started using Personal Capital to keep track of all my accounts in one place. I was using BECU Money Manager for this before but I think Personal Capital does a better job and has more supported integrations. Wealthfront can also be used for this but I've only integrated my retirement account with it for the retirement forecasting feature.
That’s awesome everyone! I opened an IRA (glad I did it before the new year) and a normal brokerage account through Vanguard. I have been reading a lot about index funds, asset groups, and how to diversify in a relatively passive manner (I don’t want to be a full time fund manager haha). I began with long articles and other online material. I am starting on some MMM-recommended books in that area. I finished “Intelligent Asset Allocator”, which was super useful and not too hard to understand and didn’t take long to get through. I think that is it so far.
@brandon how is Personal Capital different from an app like Mint?
@spkaplan If I'm doing a 401k through work as well as a Roth IRA, I can't invest any more money in IRAs if those are maxed out, right?
Why did you want to do this before the new year? Some tax bill related thing?
@andelink I haven't tried Mint but personal capital has a larger emphasis on investment accounts and asset tracking while I thought mint was more of a budgeting tool.
@brandon Yeah, there is a max contribution (currently 5.5k) for IRA’s. So if you contribute 5.5k to a IRA Roth, you cannot put any into an traditional IRA (and visa versa).
I wanted to open it before the year end so I had the option to put in the max contribution for 2017 and 2018.
Interesting I will have to read that comparison.
@spkaplan The max annual contribution to a Roth IRA is only $5.5k? I can't put anymore away then that? That's pretty weak. What's the return rate on yours?
@andelink Yeah IRA’s (combined) are capped at 5.5k/year. If you put in more you get a big penalty. Thankfully you can put 18.5k into your 401k. My IRA is currently all invested in the Vanguard 500 Index (tracks the S&P 500). It is only invested in one fund right now because there are minimums per fund. As years go on and I put more in the IRA each year, I will diversify it a bit, same as you would do for a normal brokerage account. So for now it’s performance is just that of the Vanguard 500 Index. Just google VFINX.
@andelink I removed the link and added an instruction. I agree that the IRA limit seems kind of low, but if you are putting 18.5k into a 401k and 5.5k into your IRA, you will be balling out 💰 from the age of 59.5 and onward haha. If you are saving more than that, then investing the rest in a taxable brokerage account is the next best thing.
According to this Roth IRA calculator - with starting balance of $0, annual contribution $5,500 (plus the extra $1000 in catch-up contributions after age 50), 42 years of investing, 7% return rate, and 28% marginal tax rate - Roth IRA will make you $500k+ more than a standard taxable investment account. Not too shabby!
Not too shabby at all! And imagine what 18.5k every year in your 401k will amount to 😮
That's what I love about the Roth IRA! Since you pay taxes upfront, you don't have to pay taxes on the account interest. And that interest just keeps on compounding!
The 401k is awesome too because it's going to grow so much faster but it doesn't have the same "magic" to it, you know? haha
How does buying/selling crypto vary state-to-state?
It's actually pretty strict in WA from what I've heard. I haven't really experienced any trouble first hand though
If you just google "cryptocurrency washington state" there are a lot of articles on it specifically
lol wow what an opening line:
"The Mega Backdoor Roth is a strategy that could allow you to make an *additional $36,000* in Roth IRA contributions every year!"
I was doing other things and reading this during pauses in the other things so I will need to dive into this deeper and all the links he referenced, but based on my skim I definitely want to look into this "transfer from your 401k to your Roth IRA" thing. Sounds promising.
I saw this pop up a week ago and then forgot to check back. I will definitely take a look!
Not investment related, but definitely finance related…I just finished a book called Borrow (link below). I found it fascinating and would recommend it if you are interested in the history of debt in the US. It gave me a whole new perspective on how debt works and why it works the way it does. Some parts will be somewhat familiar with you read or watched The Big Short, but most of it would be new material. The link is to Amazon, but I just checked it out from the library.
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Okay how much money have you guys made off crypto? I’m done sitting on the sidelines. What’s the fastest way for me to get in on it? Like by the end of the weekend I want some
I will do some quick math this afternoon or evening. I'm with family, so depends when I can get away haha. As an upfront disclaimer, I have not made any gains, only unrealized gains, because I haven't sold any.
I also only have unrealized gains. I got a coinbase account and put $500 in each of the 3 currencies available at the time (BTC, ETH, LTC). That's it. I've been very passive and fairly conservative. And, as of now I have ~$3200. Just a little over double the $1500 I put in (actually slightly less than $1500 to start with since I lost some to transaction fees). I got a little lucky since LTC trippled in value the same week I got in and ETH has now doubled but that sort of growth isn't happening continuously so you might not get the crazy gains that we were seeing from these currencies a month ago. Maybe you will and we'll all be happy, nobody knows. In the past week my value has fluctuated from ~$2600 to ~$3300. Take a look at the charts on coinmarketcap.com to get a sense of the value trends of each coin. Bitcoin in particular has been disappointing lately but I guess a correction was to be expected.
It will take a while to get your coinbase account validated and your bank account confirmed so you'll want to sign up ASAP. Unfortunately, you probably won't be able to trade by the end of the weekend since the process takes a while.
Side note: I also had Keenin buy me some ADA using his bittrex account as a more experimental and volatile investment. Big gains, big losses, and a really cool coin project regardless. The reason I had to go through Keenin is because bittrex isn't currently accepting new users due to such high sign up rates.
Hope this helps!
Coinbase is the most popular exchange in the US. It is the best place to start.
Below is what I have bought and what they are worth. ALL number are approximations, but pretty close. Similarly to @brandon, I am just buying and holding. I did a little more buying when I figured out how to buy altcoins with BTC, but I haven’t done anymore in a while and don’t have any plans to do more. It was fun to understand how to buy them, but I am not banking on cryptocurrencies paying for my retirement haha.
ETH
bought: 4 at $400 ($1600)
currently worth: $5300
BTC
bought .1 at $10k ($1k)
bought .1 at $4.5k ($450)
currently worth $2.6k
LTC
bought some
worth some
made probably $100ish
XRP
bought 1485 at $.25 ($371)
currently worth $2.7k
NEO
bought 12 at 0.00327002 BTC ($440)
currently worth $1.8k
Let me tell ya, it's a great time to buy! Haha everything is plummeting right now
Sounds like a terrible time to buy lol unless you are confident everything will go back up again
Haha would you really rather buy during a huge upward trend? The only people that get to be excited about those are people who bought during the last dip. And you can never be confident it's going to do anything haha but if you want to buy in then you can consider this a "sale". Remember, we're pretty much gambling here..
For sure you never know. But I’d still want to buy during the early stages of an upward-slope rather than the early stages of a downward-slope. I think that makes sense?
24-hour period is fine. Is that what you meant by "everything is plummeting right now?"
I haven't done any due-diligence yet so when I hear that I think a significant time period of value dropping. But you're right this is crypto and a 24-hour drop doesn't mean much
Which makes this feel like an anomaly which is why I said it's probably a "sale". I'm guessing (and crossing my fingers) that the market will correct. Not really sure what caused this though. There's a lot of stuff going on with China and Korea fighting cracking down on crypto right now which may be causing some of it? But who knows.
The fact that so many of these currencies lost almost half their value over night is both horrifying and exciting. Just a couple weeks ago we observed the opposite thing happening and it was amazing haha
Lol yeah it was one of the first articles that showed up in my Twitter timeline when bitcoin started becoming crazy valuable
The way I've justified my investments is that I am investing in the technology and hoping to contribute to it's evolution. I have not invested any money that I am not comfortable losing.
I give zero fucks about the technology, mostly because I haven't done research on the technology. Literally have no idea what blockchain is.
haha yeah, it takes a while to wrap your head around it (I am still no expert). I didn't really have a grip on it until after I invested but it encouraged me to learn more for sure.
Yeah I haven’t had motivation to dive zero into it. The $$ is the primary factor and (clearly) that hasn’t motivated me enough
Put in like $50 and track it for a week. That way you don't feel too nervous but you can have a taste and see if it motivates you to learn more and invest more.
I’d like to second what @brandon said, “Remember, we’re pretty much gambling here..“.
Nice! I read it last night and I really appreciated his perspective. It's good to have someone keep you in check when it's so easy to get high on the hype.
I was excited to hear that news. I've been waiting to watch crypto prices go up (fingers crossed)
Yeah, I saw this today too. I wish my robinhood account hadn't been permanantly deactivated. I'm really excited to see how the market adjusts. And maybe transaction fees will go down now that there is a "no transaction fee" competitor in the crypto exchange space. Really cool!
@brandon what happened to your Robinhood account?
I didn't activate it within 2 weeks (send in my id and bank info and what not) and because of that it became inactive. I was just trying to use the app passively for a while first but when I called support to ask why my verification recently hadn't gone through yet they said that my account had been locked and I would need to use a new email to sign up again. And I thought that was lame so I haven't gone back.
The other day I saw an ad on YouTube offering a "Bitcoin IRA" account. It was both hilarious and super scary.. Nobody should be investing their retirement in such a volatile market.
@andelink I signed up for this but am not sure how useful it will be for me since there aren't enough people at my company registered for us to have our own internal forum. Apparently 10 people have registered and you need at least 30. What do you use the app for mostly? I'm not sure what I'm missing out on by not having a company forum. Is that the main purpose or could I still benefit form the app?
I think the Tech Lounge is great. People discuss/compare working at different companies. I find the compensation discussions great and keep me aware of what I could be doing instead. Industry gossip, shit like that. I quite enjoy it.
It’s also a bunch of SDEs bitching about teammates and frustrations they have. So I read and can mentally note where I’m at in those regards and can actively avoid doing those annoying things in the future.
I’ll update here with topics I find interesting/useful (referring to the Tech Lounge). I like getting perspective from a large range of roles at various tech companies.
Things I’ve watched today / recently or am currently watching:
* fu money
* career regrets
* data engineering at different companies
* best practices when dealing with recruiters
* dick teammates in code reviews
* reasonable way to save $2M in two years
** moving between FANG companies
...
Although the Amazon forum is a bit depressing/toxic right now. Guessing because it’s review season and people are getting cut.
But the more I read on Blind and the more critical thought I apply, I begin to think everyone on there is a little bitch
Cool, thanks for the info. I'll check out those sections next time I open it up.
How was everyone affected by the recent market downturn? My Wealthfront account lost a lot of its returns, and now only a bit over my contribution.
True but I can’t help. I’m not discouraged or skittish, just curious
Gotcha, if it's curiousity that's great! 😃 dips in the market are good for us young people, time to buy more!
Yeah, it was a very noticeable downturn! Now I know what it feels like to be in the negative 😅 I haven't been investing as long though which is why it bumped me into the negative so easily. Not worried about it either though.
Ouch dude negative?? That blows. Turn a blind eye and stay steadfast
Yeah, I'm really not nervous at all. That's just what happens when you have only been investing for a couple months. I totally expect to be going up and down a lot over the years. Maybe owning crypto has trained me to stay calm haha this shift is nothing compared to the movement in that market.
At one point some of us were discussing how long you can contribute to the previous year's IRA balance. I just confirmed that you can contribute until the following April. So if you didn't contribute last year, it's not too late!
15 Months to Contribute. One quirk in the IRA laws is that you have 15 months to make a contribution for the current tax year. In 2017, for instance, you can make a contribution any time from January 1, 2017, to April 17, 2018 (the tax filing deadline).
Good call out! I saw that when filing my taxes, but I forgot to say something.
Haha yeah, I saw that but haven't looked into it much. Are there transaction fees?
Like you can transfer BTC to another individual?
I think it's just for buying and selling, not exchanging with others. They are probably moving in that direction though. However, not sure how useful it's going to be to make everyday transactions with such a volatile currency...
Can you feel the Pumpening?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7xsm8y/can_you_feel_the_pumpening/?st=JDP9IB93&sh=ea6eb474
Did “hodl” start with crypto? I’ve only seen it in this context
I did turbo tax last year I don’t recall anything about this.
Guess I’m a little confused. Can I not use turbo tax like last year? When I look at the file for above $66k income, it says “must know how to do taxes yourself; only does basic math”
Seems a little fucked, doesn’t it?
My understanding is there is the "free file" program offered by the IRS. This is how we have been able to use TurboTax, hr block, etc... for free. Basically, this is the IRS making lives of many people a lot easier and not allowing tax-free companies to take charge them. Once you make more than the income limit, you can either use the "Free File Fillable Forms" (i.e. the much more manual way), or pay for TurboTax, hr block, etc... to do it for you.
Gah that sucks. Isn’t enough money already taken for taxes... and now we have to pay more to file them...
That’s how these tax-prep companies make 💰. I am not sure whether I will pay to file or use the “Free File Fillable Forms”.
I will fuck up my taxes if I don’t get help. Will pay 💰 for the assistance.
Yeah, sounds like I'll be paying for assistance as well. I actually used credit karma to file free last year and really liked it. Not sure if they have a paid option though so I might be going back to turbo tax. Unless people have other suggestions? I've also heard hr block is good as well but I need a comparison table or something haha
I also would like a comparison if anyone has the experience
I haven’t done any comparisons 😕 Try googling, turbotax vs hrblock vs …
Thank you Sam but I was trying to avoid any effort :)
I guess HR Block offers Amazonians 25-35% off their tax services, so I am leaning towards them
@brandon uploaded a file: Screenshot_20180220-114724~2.png and commented: See, told you it was a sale! 😅 We're finally back to a positive trend in the one month window. Phew.
@brandon commented on @brandon’s file https://soundstack.slack.com/files/U2494HTLP/F9C1YTUUS/screenshot20180220-1147242.png: @andelink Did you ever end up buying any?
I'm guessing nobody was buying during this time just because it was scary but I just thought I'd bring it up in case anyone happened to double their money this month!
Don’t feel left out. It might all go to zero and we’ll feel like fools lol
I only feel left out when I hear about people making hundreds of thousands, millions, etc. But I am never going to throw enough money at crypto to make those sort of returns, so I will most likely not buy any at all.
Haha yeah, it's still all just for fun. I'm sure I'll still end up losing money on the whole thing somehow. It's been fun to watch though!
Haha I was just doing that sort of mental math with the 2/4 dip
but holy fuck if only i put in $5K in July of last year I'd be able to pay off the rest of my student loans with the returns alone
Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous. It's so hard to be responsible when you start theorizing about what it could look like in another year. But like Sam said, there is definitely no promise that it will continue to perform at that level for another year or even exist in a year. And there is definitely no way that it can perform at that level indefinitely.
Sorry for my tardiness. I actually did buy the dip. Made out pretty good so far.
Thinking about buying more and moving it to ADA as that hasn't jumped up yet and the BTC to ADA ratio is very good.
Yeah, my advice would be to make sure you have developed a strategy for investing in more stable markets before you start having fun with crypto. Vanguard and Wealthfront have been popular choices in this channel if your looking for a place to start. If you decide to explore Wealthfront, be sure to get a promo code from Kyle or I prior to signing up. Because yeah, this is pretty much just gambling haha
@tiaalexa if you go with Wealthfront I will refer you. Brandon owes me this 🙂
My personal investment strategy:
1. Automatic monthly deposits into Wealthfront and 401k (still need to get an IRA)
2. Buy as much Netflix stock as possible when I have extra cash
3. Watch my single free Groupon stock do nothing
Nice. That sounds good. I just set up my IRA with wealth front a week or so ago and it was super easy. They even make it super simple to contribute to last year's so you may want to set that up soon if you want to contribute to 2017. Are you managing Netflix and Groupon through Robinhood? It sounds fun to be place a bet on a specific company like that just for fun. I might have to try signing up for Robinhood again.
Yeah I have 5 shares of Netflix. Groupon was a freebie from Robinhood when I referred Lauren,
Netflix is an excellent bet. I’m up $500+ in the few months I’ve held them and their Q4 quarterly earnings report was stellar. Biggest player in this space with ~$10B market cap. It’s growing growing growing. I buy whenever I can.
Just FYI, Wealthfront is ending their "free 10k without fees" promotion at the end of March. You will still get 5k managed for free if you sign up using a referral but you won't get the upfront 10k just because. In other words, if you still haven't taken the time to set up an investment account and want an intuitive relatively hands off solution, sign up now!
Yeah, I've seen this as well but my referral link gets you the same promotional deal while also providing a bonus for me as well :) haha
Sam and Keenin use my referral which is about to slide into your DMs
I was simply trying to look out for people's best interest and warn them about the end of the ongoing promotion while also making sure they had a fresh and valid referral code to use.
Does anyone have any experience with online banks, specifically online savings accounts?
Like Ally? I don't personally have one but I haven't heard anything bad about them. Usually they have better interest rates (still not great though). It's just slightly harder to access your money I think. Why do you ask?
Yep, like Ally. Good to hear you haven’t heard anything bad. From reading online, they are totally legit/safe, fdic insured, etc… and while each individual bank has its own cons, the only general/common downside that applies to all of them is not having any brick-and-mortar branches to walk in to and talk to a human. I ask, because I am starting the preliminary research/learning about buying a condo/house. The online bank part came up when I was researching where is the best place to put the down payment while saving and building it up.
Ah, I see. That's cool. Yeah, an online savings account will probably get you a slightly better rate than a standard savings account. And if you just need a place to drop money, it will work fine.
My thoughts exactly! 🙂 1.5% (from Ally bank) is much better than my 0.1% in my current savings account.
Exactly. And I guess I do have a Capital One 360 CD account which I think is Capital One's online banking offer. They had pretty competitive CD options and it has been painless.
Have you talked to your SO about your FIRE goals? Is your SO a consideration in your FIRE plans or are you planning with only you in mind? I personally feel the need to do this on my own with my own goals but I factor in my SO wrt big expenses like travel and the like.
* FIRE: Financial Independence / Retire Early
* SO: significant other
** wrt: with respect to
At this point, I'm just saving as much as I can and not really thinking about whether it's enough for both of us or not. There are so many life goals that require large sums of money that I pretty much figure as long as we're both saving as much as we can, we should be ok and that's all we really can do. We haven't discussed specific timelines, net worth goals, or opened any joint investment accounts if that's what you mean. Personally, I feel like I will want to keep working until I feel that my family as a collective unit has enough money to live comfortably. So, in that sense I suppose I consider it a joint effort.
Personally I do not talk to my SO about this specifically. Even though we have been dating for quite some time - I think we are not at a state where we incorporate each other in that. Individually we save and I think that will figure itself out as time progresses and we reach other milestones such as living together, etc. This is what works for us and is the level of comfort we have. We do talk about somethings but still feel we are early on in the relationship.
I have shared my goals. We are both on the same page when it comes to saving as much as possible, hoping to reach FIRE someday. Going off of what Brandon said…we haven’t discussed much wrt financial timelines or net worth goals, except we have talked a lot about and done a lot of research for buying a condo.
I'm waiting to have a more serious talking about finances until Lauren finishes her Master's program. Thanks for the feedback all.
@spkaplan Are you planning to buy a condo in the near future? I think we've talked about this before, but what's your pro/con list look like?
@andelink, waiting until she is out of school seems like a good idea 👍
We would really like to buy one soon, but we have agreed it is better to wait until we are at least engaged, because it would be a difficult situation in the off chance something happened to our relationship and we owned a condo together. There are a TON of pros and cons, so many that I wouldn’t give a representative illustration if I tried to list them now, but what it really comes down to for me is that I’d like to start building equity in a home, it would be a good educational stepping stone on the way to owning a full single-family house, and, as we all know, there are lots of great places to work in the greater Seattle area, so there won’t be a sudden need to move to find work.
I really like this idea. Note: The title is misleading. https://www-cnbc-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/07/03/this-non-profit-will-give-you-1000-if-you-take-a-personal-finance-clas.html?amp_js_v=a2&_gsa=1#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnbc.com%2F2018%2F07%2F03%2Fthis-non-profit-will-give-you-1000-if-you-take-a-personal-finance-clas.html
This is awesome. Going to send to my sisters. Thank you for sharing.
How's your stock portfolio doing with the drop in the stock market this week?
Edit: Nevermind. Don't look. We're here for the long run not the short run. Please ignore.
It's basically been going to the moon the whole time I've been working here, so I've diversified my grants only a little - because you know, what other stock or index fund could match the growth $amzn has been seeing.
But now I am feeling the pain of this gamble. The past few days I've lost over $30k in unrealized gains 😞
😮 Wow, I got a notification yesterday about Netflix and thought the ~10% dip was bad. Amazon is even worse! I wonder what's going on. Maybe everyone is pulling out of tech so they can put all their money in crypto again for the end of year growth spurt lol
All my investments are just in index funds and what not through Wealthfront so I'm just ignoring the moderate dip.
Two recent news bits for Amazon:
1. Raise minimum wage for all their fc workers to $15
2. Bloomberg released this scary article: (read Amazons response here: )
Also, interest rates are rising so people are moving some money from stock market to bonds
lol @ "There are so many inaccuracies in this article as it relates to Amazon that they’re hard to count."
The article is quite concerning if true. I don't see any motive from Bloomberg to lie about this. I do see reason for Amazon to deny knowing anything about it.
Similarly to Brandon, I have almost everything in indexes. But thankfully I don't have everything in sp500 indexes, because those have been hit hard by the tech downturn too. I learned a while back that the tech companies make up a surprisingly large amount of bigcap company indexes, so I started putting a portion of money into one of the Value indexes (which usually doesn't have the high-growth companies like Google, Facebook, etc...). Just trying to diversify as much as possible haha.
Haha I haven't given it a thought. I understand it would be harder if you owned actual stock though.
Normally I don't look. But since this downward tick has happened it has been hard not to. Seriously AMZN has dropped nearly $500 in the last month. I've been planning for most of this year to sell a fair amount in November and now this happens just as I'm about to 😞 damn trading windows
Damn dude, that sucks. I can see how that would be stressful if your compensation was directly wrapped up in it. I mean, the stock is still doing great but it can be hard to watch. I remember you saying that a lot of your coworkers just automatically cash out each time they receive their stock. Are you considering moving to that approach just for the ease of mind?
Most likely, yes. It's just been booming since I joined at a price of ~$600 so I've gambled a bit by holding. Smart thing to do is diversify
damn, $600? Definitely don't blame you. I probably would have done the same thing.
The bet was definitely worth it though! I would probably have done the same thing
I'd say you are still coming out on top regardless. You'll still make more money than your coworkers who sold at each increment. It's just so hard to pull the trigger on selling when you have that voice in the back of your head saying "but it'll probably go back up".
I'd also say that a big dip like this could very well mean the market has decided it's reached its limit (for now) and there is no saying how long this correction could last. My gut says take your money and get out. Reinvest/Diversify and sleep better at night haha the roller coaster is only fun for so long.
source: bitcoin survivor (not really, everyone is dead)
I have my 401k retirement through a separate provider (empower retirement) and then my Roth IRA and personal investments are in Wealthfront.
@brandon was it easy setting up a Roth IRA with Wealthfront?
super easy, you just select Roth IRA instead of "Personal" when you set up a new account.
401k with Expedia using Fidelity
IRA using Vanguard (not setup through work/Expedia)
All other stock/bonds investments using Vanguard
Cash for a down payment in Ally (high-interest online bank savings account)
I want to try out wealthfront, but I haven’t made the time
Okay, yea I have my comcast 401k and stocks in Fidelity, current 401k and Roth IRA thru Empower, but wanted to see what peeps were using for personal investments outside of those.
You'll probably want to look into combining your old 401k into your current. Not sure how that works though.
I've looked into it, it's not too hard. Just haven't had a reason to, besides seeing all my money in one account.
Additionally if you are trying to manage more than one you probably aren't going to have the old ones optimized as well for the market.
It's not like an urgent thing, but I definitely think it's worth taking care of at some point.
“Invest in you” was a nice change from the usual advice
Anyone still holding on to any coins? Bitcoin just dropped an additional $500 today 😂 I admittedly have done no selling since my initial investment besides one transfer from Bitcoin to ADA. Maybe I'm an idiot for not selling by now but I just can't get myself to sell at a loss even though I'm 99% sure that at least Bitcoin is going to go all the way down to zero. Can someone please tell me they have already pulled all their money out and I need to go home and do the same thing.
I actually still have some hope in ADA and other "next-gen" currency projects so I'll probably keep supporting them but at this point, Bitcoin is just a joke.
I feel like it's an emotional thing now. Like no one will ever trust their money in Bitcoin again because they've already been hurt by it. It's got to be a different coin marketed as something new for people to feel safe again.
I havent sold, because I don't want to figure out how to pay taxes on it lol. My main motivation for buying was incase it goes to 1million (basically a lottery ticket).
Haha yeah, same. I hadn't though through the taxes part yet though. Good point. I guess we're all going down with the ship ⛵ 👋
I saw that this morning too. 3% is crazy! I thought I was happy getting 2% from Ally.
Someone needs to tell me any reasons why not to make this my primary checking/savings
Which they’re not, since they are technically a brokerage
These new savings/checkings accounts might be though. I have a hard time believing they would open offer savings/checkings accounts without it.
I haven’t heard of a good ole bank run anytime recently though. And I don’t have $250k sitting in cash in a bank to worry about
If I even have 10k in cash, I would want it to be insured. Next market crash could wipe out RobinHood, and I want the government to insure my cash
Thanks for sharing that. SIPC sounds better tbh
This will probably be the first time I move money from the accounts I’ve had since childhood
Edit: banking accounts
It's not actually a savings account. It's a money management account, which they then invest your money into bonds.
Think of it as like buying stocks in Robinhood. They are guaranteeing a 3% return, but if they go belly-up that stock is worth $0.
A little more risky, yes. But shouldn't the SIPC cover that up to $500k?
Also, thinking about it now, isn't that exactly what these banks are doing with our savings/checking account funds? It's how fractional reserve banking works. We put in $100, the bank can then physically take that money and use it in loans to other customers/clients and the interest made on those loans go back to the bank with a bit going back to us. I'm sure these banks also dabble in the markets with these funds, but maybe not?
Funds are not FDIC insured. It's just the weight of the company standing behind it. As I see it, if the market tanks, it's entirely possible Robinhood could go under (if there are enough deposits on hand to sink them) and you'll lose your money.
I'm not sure what this means in practice if the market would go down and the losses would be too much for Robinhood to bear. If anyone is an expert on this, please let us know in the comments.
Finally opening up a Welathfromt account and investing my first little bit to see how it goes 😃
I only thought to use it after I had already setup the account, linked external accounts, etc… At this point, I’m too lazy to do it again haha 😕
I guess it depends on how much the code gets us. Is it 5k?, 10k? managed free forever?, for 1 year, etc…?
Both people get an additional $5k managed free forever. If you've already signed up, I think it's too late though since your email is already in the system and everything. I guess maybe you could try contacting support and say you forgot to apply it? But that's up to you.
I set up a Betterment account for comparison, but it was way more confusing and unintuitive than WealthFront.
Sounds like WealthFront was definitely a good choice! MMM recommends Betterment, but I want to know whether he has checked out WealthFront.
@brandon What do you have selected in this screen? If you don’t mind me asking…
I have it on the default but I don't think I have enough money invested to take advantage of anything except tax loss harvesting.
And yeah, MMM recommends Betterment but that article is pretty old. I don't think Wealthfront was around when he wrote it.
I've seen ~$1500 in tax-losses harvested. Is there a reason not to do that?
I've never seen the option for Stock-level Tax-Loss Harvesting. Is that new? What is it?
Here's some descriptions from the "Learn More" button. All of the features except tax loss harvesting require at least a 100k balance so it's probably not really something we have to worry about yet (I sure don't yet! Maybe some of you guys have been hustling!). All of them seem to have your best interest in mind but you are also betting on Wealthfront's algorithms so you have to decide whether you think they know what their doing. In my opinion, if you're using an investor that specializes in robo-advising and investing based on algorithms and models, you should probably feel comfortable using all of the tools they have to offer.
Oh cool thanks for sharing!
I’m not there yet either :)
I wonder why they kick in only at $100k. Do they think it will motivate us more as if $100k alone isn’t already motivating?
Maybe it requires more expensive calculations so they only offer it to their larger clients? Doesn't seem that believable though so I'm not sure.
Have you made any changes to your investments given the bear market?
Nope. I'm just staying the course. I haven't increased or decreased my investments. And I'd like to think that's not just me being lazy haha I'm just trying to stay consistent.
Good question @andelink! Same here, Brandon. I see it as dollar-cost averaging at work. I just keep investing at the same rate/amount as usual.
Okay same lol I was hoping to hear the same cause it’s easier for me not to change anything
Yeah, even though it can feel weird, now is actually the most important time to invest I think.
I am totally diggin’ WealthFront! I have linked all of my other accounts to make WealthFront’s “Path” feature accurate, and I find it’s projection fun to look at.
Yeah, I have a couple of my accounts linked up as well but need to consider going all the way. I really enjoy their financial planning features as well. Do you know if they are smart enough to ignore a 401k retirement account in plans you have in the next 10 years or so?
I haven’t seen a way to ignore accounts in consideration for specific goals, but I totally agree that would be really helpful! I’m guessing you’re thinking about some scenario like… I want to buy a house in 5 years, but I won’t be using any funds from y 401k for that purchase?
Yeah, exactly. I feel like the money should only be considered available at 55 or whatever. I suppose it's part of your net worth but its not really accessible.
I agree. It might get a little confusing to exclude certain accounts from certain goals, but more accurate to real life I feel.
Late to this...
Isn't the money in a retirement account like your 401k still accessible before its sunset date? It will just come with an early withdrawal fee, right?
Yeah, but I don't plan on doing that so I don't want it to be taken into consideration for short term goals I have configured in Wealthfront like buying a house. I suppose the easy solution is just don't add that account.
Gotchu gotchu. Makes total sense. I’m surprised they don’t have some sort of smaller goal tracker like most banks do. Or maybe I just haven’t found it
This is the kind of goals they allow you to define in the portal. Are you familiar?
Yeah I was just looking at those. Haven’t done any so I’m not familiar with the specifics
Yeah, it's a pretty new feature so they are so building it out but it's kind of fun to play around with.
Speaking of TLH...
https://www.reddit.com/r/investing/comments/a8e6la/tsk_tsk_wealthfront_caught_redhanded_by_sec_for/?st=JQPI2A9E&sh=8ccacd8e
Well, that sucks. I don't fully understand it, but I know it sucks! I'll have to do more research but let me know if you guys end up making any changes. Wealthfront was the top rated robo advisor in 2018 but I want to know if that's no longer true.
damn… that’s sketchy. I want to read more about it to decide if it’s best to stay away from WealthFront altogether or it is okay to continue
Bleh, I already tried charles schwab 😕 It was so much more involved. I'm sure there is just a steep learning curve but I'd rather find a service that is going to do more of the management for me.
From what I've heard a lot of the index funds can do that for you. i.e. move your money around depending on how you set your ratios.
I haven’t done anything yet. Has there been more news?
Not that I know of. I will probably stay unless I hear more reasons or people recommending to move away from it.
Huh, seems pretty legit actually as long as you have Xfinity internet already. Might make the switch! Thanks for the tip @keenin!
Good reminder to take advantage of the Xfinity mobile hotspots I guess though
Where does it mention free phone service through Verizon?
Oh I see it. “Included with your Xfinity internet service” and then you only pay for $12/gb or $45 for unlimited
Hmm that is interesting. Whatever their case I hope it does result in more competitive rates
Agreed. Very interesting take on it. I'm just not used to thinking of indirect profit like that but I guess when you're Google and have already conquered your space you have to start thinking outside the box.
I've always been fascinated and puzzled by their balloon project too. It was interesting hearing it put in the same context.
Agreed I hadn’t thought about all the ad revenue they’re missing out on from 4B people not having internet yet. Here I was thinking Google was being altruistic
I think that Quora answer has a good chance of being right. It sounds very plausible for me.
MMM and his son also started up mini Q&A channel on YouTube. So far it seems like the same info as is in his blog, but it is a bit entertaining. It could help hook new people who are not willing to commit to reading his crazy number of blog posts.
There are only about 5 videos up so far. I don’t think I can really say I recommend the channel yet. It seems primarily like a project him and his son are doing for fun, but I think it could potentially turn out to be a good source of content.
Anyone heard about this? It sounds pretty good with 2.24% APY
Yeah, I saw an article in the news about it. Seems like a good idea if you are looking to put your cash somewhere.
Is it different than a normal savings account with a similar APY, like Ally?
Yeah, this would be perfect if you are looking for a place to put your cash and already are using WealthFront 😉
I was gonna move my emergency fund from my 0.15% APY BoA savings account to Ally but this seems too convenient (and slightly better return). Gonna keep reading about it but it sounds promising
I wonder why they chose 2.24%. But other than that I have monies in Ally right now and +.24% seems nice.
Ally is 2.2%, right? Not much of a difference. I also don't know all the pros/cons/differences between the two offerings.
Marcus by Goldman Sachs offers 2.25% APY:
Ally, and I assume most high interest savings accounts, continue to raise their interest rates along with the fed raising interest rates. When I joined Ally the rate was something below 2, then it was 2.00, now it is 2.20.
I wouldn’t sweat over the small differences in rates, because they all continue to creep upwards.
Haha yeah I didn’t notice for a while either Keenin 😆 it is a nice surprise when they increase it
Agreed. If you already have your money somewhere with a comparable rate, not worth the move to slightly better IMO
I'm not sure if the compound frequency patters if the Annual Percentage Yield is the same. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Otherwise compound daily is fantastic
My tax return this year is -$790. I don't know how or why I owe that much but I guess I do. You guys done your taxes yet?
I used turbo tax only cause I used them last year. It’s nice also you can import your tax documents from brokerages. I heard creditkarma can do the same though
Yeah, that's what I'm doing too. I always just confused about which tier I need. Were you able to do the free tier?
@tiaalexa Do you have an investment account open? I'm not sure if that pushes me out of the free tier or not.
It does with turbo tax. If you have 1099-DIV or 1099-B you gotta use the premier service
Alright, cool. That's what I thought but I wasn't sure since it always feels so cryptic. Thanks
Just finished and my deductions were pretty spot on this year. I ended up with a $113 return.
Wow, soo late to this haha, but I used hrblock just because I used them last year. I luckily got a ~$1600 return. HRBlock also makes you pay if you have an investment account 😞 I found that the biggest factor for me in getting less than a 2k refund was capital gains taxes for selling some investments. Maybe the same happened in your scenario @andelink?
I did sell some investments, but what I found out was that Morgan Stanley lowered their withholding this past year so when I had RSUs vest to me I didn't pay enough at time of vest
Yeah, I saw this yesterday! I checked my account and it's already adjusted to the new rate party-parrot
Well, I think I might officially be back in the green on my crypto investments. What a wild ride! Have you guys followed bitcoin the past couple of days? It has been particularly fun to watch.
Yeah, I've been watching Cardano. Unfortunately, I need a pretty large up swing! lol Cardano and Ethereum are in the red for me but Litecoin and Bitcoin are holding me up 💪
Look at this bullshit from my bank. The savings account I have with them is 0.02% APY. They’re finally offering (semi)competitive rates, but with some crazy balance requirements from new money only.
Finally did the backdoor conversion thing and got myself a roth ira with vanguard. I was putting it off because I get stressed by the rules around it but worth it! Can answer q's if people have them!
Do you funnel all of your traditional IRA contributions to your Roth IRA immediately, only some, etc…?
All of it immediately. Once a year early early January I contribute the max to a traditional IRA and then convert immediately.
I’ve followed the Physician on Fire. Idk rn if this is the exact post but e.g. https://www.physicianonfire.com/backdoor/
Awesome. I gotta get on that. I already do the 1st part: contribute max to Traditional IRA in Jan.
So, if I move everything from my traditional to a roth tomorrow-ish, I will have to pay taxes on all of it. I will need to bite that bullet haha
Traditional is pre-tax? Something something pro rata rule with apply
yeah traditional is pre-tax, so I haven’t paid taxes on it. I read I will have to pay taxes on it when i move it to the roth. Good move in the long run, but painful to pay taxes on 3-4 years of IRA contributions and the gains all at once haha
Yeah that’s a lot but I think worth it in the long run
thanks for confirming I am understanding this. Sounds like a no brainer, which is great
I think mathematically it comes down to whether you have a higher tax rate now or later
But I think and really really hope I have a lower tax rate later
that sounds familiar. my intuition says that if you have a lower tax rate later, then you want to pay taxes later (i.e. when you withdraw), right?
i assume there is a good reason everyone says to do a backdoor roth if you are a high earner (which translates to high tax rate now)
I have a relatively long text message exposé between me and my last manager on why there is zero reason to do a traditional IRA at our income levels
But I think it’s because if you make over $X per year and you already contribute to a 401k (pre-tax) you do not get any deduction from a tradition IRA. So it would be basically an after-tax IRA. And if you’re doing after tax it should be a Roth
that makes sense if it’s true, but I hadn’t heard of that limitation to the traditional ira before. I am googling, so maybe it will turn up
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/retirement/03/011603.asp
/istock512752254.kroach.ira.cropped-5bfc313dc9e77c005144ff12.jpg)
Wow, so I paid taxes on my ira contributions last year… then all the more reason to move to a Roth, just like you said
yeah, looks like I didn’t actually get a tax deduction from contributing to my traditional ira….that is eye opening. So, if I already paid taxes on it, then I definitely should move to Roth ira
I cannot think of one reason to do traditional Ira
Do you have to do any fancy tax stuff when you do the backdoor Roth come tax time, or does HRblock/Turbotax figure it out from the Vanguard tax documents?
yeah, looks like I didn’t actually get a tax deduction from contributing to my traditional iraReally? This is the first real confirmation I’ve seen of this. I always felt skeptical because people with similar income would argue for Roth... confusing
I don’t remember anything complex. But I’ll double check tomorrow
sorry for the confusion, I didn’t confirm it. I just made the conclusion based on the investopedia link you sent
Either way, sounds like I should go ahead and do the backdoor and just prepare to pay taxes on all 3-4 years of ira contributions all at once if I have to. Although, if investopedia is right, it sounds like I shouldn’t have received a tax deduction for my traditional ira contributions, b/c my income was above the 75k threshold (as unmarried)
Yes exactly. Based on that article you should have no tax deduction and thus no taxes due
It is nice… I thought I saved on taxes back when I contributed, and now I get to re live it by saving again haha
Anyway, enough about taxes for tonight… thanks Kyle…time for some sleep
Lmk if you figure out whether any deductions took place
Those who try to save money on food (something I’m terrible at) - what are you averaging for $/meal?
keenin [12:12 PM]
I try to stay under $10 a meal at home, but I eat a lot of red meat which isn't cheap
r.taylor [12:12 PM]
reddit.com/r/eatcheapandhealthy
keenin [12:12 PM]
^^^ basically chicken, rice, brocolli/bitter greens
r.taylor [12:12 PM]
I've seen people there say they average less than two dollars
andelink [12:12 PM]
#threadthisshit
keenin [12:12 PM]
#anarchy
andelink [12:13 PM]
I’m not replying to either of you bastards creating this chaos
keenin [12:13 PM]
fair enough, I'll thread my responseee
I feel like r/eatcheapandhealthy is stuff that’s not healthy and I wouldn’t eat anyways
if you want to eat healthy and cheap. It's literally chicken, rice, brocolli/spinach/green shit
and the rice is probably optional unless you want the extra carbs/calories
I’m just trying to figure out if I stretch a $12 Whole Foods meal into lunch and dinner - is that as good as a $/meal ratio as those who try to optimize that
Yeah @keenin that’s basically all I eat minus the rice. I don’t eat rice that often.
Salmon/trout/chicken and veggies for dinner. Chicken/veggies/sometimes black beans for lunch
which can easily be done.
1lb of chicken is like <$6 which can stretch to two meals. and veggies is not even worth calculating how cheap they are lol
True. getting the meals is the first step, then macros and calories to step that shit up
A lot to focus on that’s for sure. I ballpark estimate everything
I tried that but I wasn’t consistent enough. Wish I had the mindset for that.
Hahaha oh man I gotta stash up on pop tarts for that
It's bad. I had the craving and one box of the QFC knockoffs is only $2... throw all of those suckers into the over for a bit and you having fucking 8 perfectly toasted bastards
We need a room dedicated to highdeas for munchies
Tofu is also a good protein substitute that is dirt cheap. I had some marinated tofu from TJs last night that was pretty good. Add in a stir fry veggie mix and some rice and you've got like 3 or 4 meals.
Yeah, I like it firm and crispy 😛 But it's also good soft in curry and stuff too honestly.
I just recently realized how cheap it is and it's ridiculous. Honestly, chicken is probably the best bang for buck though.
Tofu firm/crispy is the way to go if having tofu. Was a staple during my vegetarian years
Yeah, we do a lot of "power bowls" for dinner which are basically just rice, veggies, protein, and some sort of pre-made simmer sauce (often times curry flavored).
Salads at TJs are also pretty good as long as you eat em within a couple days and only cost 4 or 5 dollars. Not the cheapest option, but easy and healthy. I'm eating one right now 🙂
They sound super cheap?? $4-5?? That’s expensive compared to what?
Cheap compared to Whole foods, Evergreen, or eating out for lunch in Seattle.
Expensive compared to making my own salad.
Okay yeah that makes sense. When you make your own meals that includes meat, what’s your usual $/meal?
We usually are like $5-8 a meal per person. we do chicken (air fryer is really good with just cajun rub), broccoli, ramen noodles and stir fry. Lunch and stuff - we try and keep it simple with sandwiches and overlap items. Eggs are popular for breakfast and yogurt and granola. Hummus is used frequently instead of avocado for “toast”. I basically look at what i currently am doing and see what ingredients I can save on (by switching to an alternative)
i’m not into meal prep and stuff like that because i’m too lazy. I will go to the grocery store each day and see what is on sale and find what i can do around that. protein is what drives the meal. also - highly recommend trader joes for salads to bring to lunch. they’re $3-4 individual and save you money compared to going out. I’m probably not the “cheapest” when it comes to these things but i try and find what is reasonable and then when i see increase in savings i try and reduce from that new baseline
also FYI - i live across the street from QFC so there’s not much inconvenience
but also - i balled out at metro market last night and made us steak paired with red wine and dessert which was NOT cheap. but i count that as an outlier
@tiaalexa good stuff! $5-8 meal is a good range I'd be stoked about. i'm super jealous of your grocery-store-every-day situation. ever since moving i don't have that
Wow, this is a solid thread! 👍
Since I have been veggie (~99% of the time) my list doesn’t have meat. Let’s see, I often eat:
Breakfast: eggs, oatmeal, cereal, almond milk.
Lunch: apples, peanut butter, hummus, veggies, tofu, PB&J, almonds, smoothies, leftovers from previous dinners.
Dinner: Stir-fry, curry, soups, tofu, veggies, salad, beans+rice, eggs.
I haven’t calculated, but I feel my $/meal comes in around 1-5$ depending on the meal. Pretty much everything I eat is inexpensive, besides fruit.
@brandon, I should add another section that is “Snacks/desert”, which is muchhh less nutritious haha 😆
@spkaplan damn sam that's nice. also, you're vegetarian? since when?
here's mine (my dr requested this info recently so i have it all typed out):
* Breakfast: banana paired with a two-egg, spinach, turkey, fat-free mozarella breakfast burrito (whole wheat tortilla with 23g fiber)
* Lunch: chicken, veggies (variety), cauliflower rice (sometimes normal brown rice), and occasionally black beans
* Afternoon: some light fruit to keep my blood sugar from tanking and becoming irritable
* Dinner: meat (usually chicken or salmon), veggies (variety)
* Holidays: binge eat terrible food and fill up on regret
* I only drink water (although a fair amount is La Croix) and coffee (decaf after the first cup)
edit: god i'm so boring now
@tiaalexa I moved to West Seattle! I used to live walking distance from a Fred Meyers, now I gotta drive to go grocery shopping
@andelink I love your “Holidays: binge eat terrible food and fill up on regret”… so true! 😆
For about 1.5 years now. I add an asterisk to vegetarian, because if I go to someone’s home I eat whatever they cook even if it is meat.
Nice! Your eating is super healthy!!
@spkaplan lol it's so true i love holiday food.
You are a polite/courteous/reasonable vegetarian. Love it. I imagine it makes your life and relationships so much easier by willing to make that compromise sometimes. Bravo.
And yeah man I had like a quarter-life crisis early this year upon turning 25. my health was in the shitter so i tried to be serious about turning it around
@andelink, You have been quite successful! 👏 Also, good for you for having a quarter life crisis instead of waiting until mid life 👍 Very efficient 😉
lol thank you thank you. shedding 75lbs has done wonders for my daily life. can't imagine being able to do that so easily at 40 years old
Feels amazing. You know, how you're supposed to feel
Wow, I had no idea the metric was that impressive. Congratulations, Kyle! Seriously, that's an awesome accomplishment.
Oh shit did not know you lost that much. That's awesome! I mean you look great, glad you feel great too.
Thanks guys!
Yeah my weight was bad. I formally hit OBESITY back in November 2018 at 220lbs. Stopped drinking, started running at the end of Feb 2019 and now I've been coasting at 143lbs for a while now. Not looking back now
lol i'm sure lauren would like that, but i'm really only interested in running farther. i don't like idea of lifting for some reason.
wow go everyone!!! if anyone ever wants to hit orange theory with me - lemme know 😄 i go at 5:30am x a week and then weekends. trying to get into solo running but pretty difficult right now
so it’s circuit training - incorporates cardio and strength building (?) we do rowing, running and some weight floor (targeting arms, legs or core) each class is different. they rotate between strength, endurance and power. difference between strength and power is power is less reps and heavier weight and strength is more reps less weight.
it’s been great. i’ve been going and so far I average ~550-600 calories per class. also you get a lot of analytics on your workouts. i can show you when we meet up but i love it
How many times a week do you go? Do you pay per workout or is it monthly?
that's the type of stuff i'd be down for. is it class/group-based?
it’s class - first one is free. i pay per month. check your companies if they have a discount. I may 145 a month but I go 3-4x a week.
i believe 8 classes a month is around 100.
Is there an app they use to track all this stuff? What other metrics do they have? I've been looking at my HRR lately
There's an Orange Theory in West Seattle near LA Fitness FYI. I walk past it sometimes.
yeah - each class they send you a summary like this and you can track in the app
Nice that looks fun! Look at all those splat points
I try to stay under $10 a meal at home, but I eat a lot of red meat which isn't cheap
I’m not replying to either of you bastards creating this chaos
Do you all have monthly fees for your checking account at your respective banks?
Edit: this is fooking rubbish. I've been get ripped off by my bank without even knowing it. 100% my fault for not looking at my transactions more closely. I only moved my cash out of my BoA savings back in March 2018. Ever since then, they've been charging me $25 per month because I haven't had a daily minimum balance of $5000 in it (either checking or savings). What bs. Just got off the phone with them. They say it's because this is a high-tier account and as such it has a minimum daily balance and if any day of the month the balance dips below that I will be charged $25 for the month. I have no idea what the benefits of this "high-tier" account are - I certainly don't reap any of them. The next lowest "tier" has a minimum daily balance of $1500 and comes with the same $25 fee for dipping below it. The tier below that has no minimum balance fees, but I can't write checks from it and it costs $4.99/mo.
I use this account to (a) receive my direct deposit from work, (b) pay rent/utilities/subscriptions upon receiving my direct deposit, (c) move money to my savings/investment accounts, and then (d) pay off credit cards at a monthly cadence. I don't have the required minimums each day of the month, by design. I still need to be able to write checks.
Do you guys have the same issues? I'm now in a search for a new checking account. I have one month before getting charged the $25 fee again.
Only reason I noticed this is because their shitty system sent me an alert this morning saying my account balance fell below $25 - which it didn't. So I was digging through my account history to see what happened and there I see this "Advantage Monthly Maintenance Fee"
Wow, that is one shitty bank you've got there!!! 😬 That's so trashy of them. I'm guessing the higher tier accounts have better interest rates.
My advice is to just close the account and go get an account at another bank. I use BECU for the functions you outlined and it works great. No minimum balance and no fees. The only caveat being that I can't do more than 6 transactions on my savings account. The checking account doesn't have any limitations.
Thank you for the recommendation. A lot of folks around here use BECU and are happy with it. I will definitely check them out.
There is a branch in the trader joes/la fitness/citymd/mod pizza area if you want to go talk to someone in person.
Oh over by Alaska/Fauntleroy? That's convenient. Might do that today
I’m not sure how this happened. This is the same account that my parents set up for me when I was like 12 years old or something. I certainly didn’t have $5k in my account every day then...
Yeah, there's probably a cryptic email from them buried in your inbox somewhere 😬
That is fuckin lame. Definitely close it and go somewhere else. I would also take the opportunity to tell them why you're leaving. It will feel good 🙂 I have heard good things about BECU forever, so I would probably go there 👍 I have WSECU, which my mom set up for me a million years ago. I am happy with them, except they are small so they don't have many branches. For the reason, I would probably go with BECU.
Uh oh 😕 So what do we do? It feels like the answer is always "do nothing" when it comes to passive investing but if you plan to use the money in the next 5 or even 10 years it might be time to pull it out?
Haha... I have no idea anymore 😓 definitely don't put money into passive if you need it withing 10 years, but I can't tell if Burry is saying to not go too much into passive at all...??
@keenin awesome, which comment? Is it the one with the green check mark?
Main thing to note is what ETF Redeeming is:
ETFs have a unique creation and redemption mechanism. APs create or redeem shares of an ETF directly with the ETF provider in creation units (typically large blocks of at least 25,000 ETF shares), which are generally exchanged in-kind for baskets of the underlying securities and/or cash.
Thanks for snipping it here. I couldn't find jpdoctor's comment. Probably my phone app is sorting my different comments or I'm just blind 😂
Sorry, above is not his comment. It's pretty long. The main paragraph explaining Michael Burry's thought proccess is this though:
Now to what Burry is saying: Several components of the big indices are thinly traded compared to the amount of money in the index funds. In a large index drop, there will be disproportionate downward moves in those thinly traded shares: As large players will be redeeming the ETFs for underlying shares and then sell, these thinly traded stocks will drop further than you'd predict from the index. This will cause the index to drop further, which will cause more ETF shares to be redeemed, perpetuating the cycle.
The first snippet is just on what ETF redemption is, for context of the actual comment by jpdoctor.
Basically trading ETF shares, for actual shares in each of the companies in that ETF. Then selling those individual shares. Doing this will cause stable, rarely-traded stocks to plummet. Causing the entire ETF as a whole to plummet. And this will continue in perpetuity because everyone will be seeing the entire ETF drop and will want to cash out before it hits the ground.
Do I understand correctly that the problem is mainly with ETFs, not plain index funds, but index funds could be effected by this problem with ETFs?
Eh. I believe the same principle applies though. But yes, in affect the plummeting value of ETFs would also affect index funds.
Basically, invest a very small percentage into a very risky, but very rewarding asset to offset large stock losses and yet not lose too much when the stocks and bonds do well. Allowing you to invest heavier into stocks. i.e. instead of the traditional 60/40 stock/bond, 80/19/1 stock/bond/tail-hedge.
tbh that's not a great pitch, but I think you should definitely look into it. If not to just get exposed to different investing strategies.
@keenin Cool. That aligns with my understanding from the googling I did.
Yea, not sure what to use as my tail-hedge though. That's the tricky part I believe. And it most likely depends on the type of bubble the current market is in. 🤷♂️
Like gold is a good tail-hedge against hyper-inflation, and shorting the housing market was a good tail-hedge in 2008.
I emailed my Uncle who was in the financial industry for a long time to ask him about Michael Burry's statement. My uncle thinks Burry's concern is if there becomes so much money in indexing and so little money under active management that the markets become inefficient, because there are not enough active managers researching companies and trading based on the public information, leading to the aforementioned inefficiency of the market to set the stock prices. Then, when the market goes for a correction, as it almost always does after the strong economy we have had for the past 10 years, the folks invested in index funds, who are generally only accustomed to good stock performance, will run away (i.e. sell) resulting in a larger downturn than otherwise would have happened. ETFs magnify the problem, because they allow shares to be bought and sold anytime during the day, which would enable people to freak out and sell even faster in response to a downturn, as opposed to index funds which can only be bought and sold at the end of the day.
My uncle says, similar to normal market downturns, which we can expect to happen in times like these with such a strong economy for the past 10 years, if you are able to weather the storm and wait it out, there is nothing to worry about.
Yea, as will all crisis, if you can weather it your fine. But the question is how much/long will you have to weather? Also, how do you profit off of this magnified correction?
Unfortunately no one ever knows how much/long a correction will be or when it will happen. A bubble just means that the next correction will be magnified due to something (e.g. Bad mortgages, ETFs). Good question about profiting from the magnified correction. He didn't mention anything about that. The tail risk stuff you found seems promising.
My thought is that a correction will be a great time for us youngsters to dump money into the stock market and buy houses 🤑 I plan to use the next correction to hopefully profit by buying really low.
My thoughts exactly Sam. Keeping a good amount of cash on hand is never a bad idea, especially in this economic atmosphere.
The only thing is, I don't think we should invest in indexes/ETFs when the correction hits. It should be specific companies/assets that will see greater growth spurred by the correction.
idk it sounds like stock pickers are getting butt hurt because no one wants to use them anymore
tl;dr should we be worried? No.
Sweet I will stop there then!
haha yeah, I read the whole thing and that is honestly the takeaway (for now at least). It's a good read though.
Yeah I’ll for sure be coming back for the rest. But I read just enough to happily hold off for now
Every morning I wake up and panic sell my investments
When I started with the Wealthfront Savings account they were offering 2.51% APY and now it is 2.07% APY. Any other high-interest saving accounts out there that beat 2.07%?
Yeah, I think a lot of rates are going down right now because the federal fund rate just got lowered. I listened to a podcast about it recently. Apparently the economy is slowing down lately and they are trying to encourage people to borrow more to keep things from slowing down further.
That is my understanding as well Brandon. All savings accounts rates have gone down recently :( But there's an upside...we are taking this opportunity of a lower fed rate to refi our house 🤑
Can’t take too much credit. Our lender is awesome. She emailed us, bringing it to our attention 🙂
I don't get it. The last sentence also makes no sense. Of course investing in just Energy companies returns less than diversifying acros the top 500 companies.
Do you all have a number that once you hit you're done grinding it out in the career game? What is your FIRE (optional E) number?
Edit: I feel like I should have a number but I don't.
Edit 2: An alternative question to ask is what is your planned yearly expenditures once you FIRE?
Interesting question! It would be awesome to have a number to aim for, but I don't have one. I think the main reason is I don't feel like i can accurately estimate my year expenses for the long-term future quite yet.
Same! I'm actually relieved you said that. I was feeling like maybe I should try to come up with a number and costs plan because it seems like most people on reddit/FIRE sites have one. But I don't think it would actually help me. Saving to save should get me to where I need to be.
Yeah, I don't have a number either. Who knows what we'll be worth in 15 years. Depends a lot. Just saving money and living life the best I can!
I think having a number isn’t so important unless you are nearing FI and need to know what is enough to stop your full time job, or if you are a person who would get motivation from having a number. Both totally legit reasons, but depends on the individual whether it would actually be helpful.
I think common practice is to have enough so that if you are able to withdraw at 3-4% of your networth a year and live off of that amount.
Has anyone considered living abroad and done the research to see how that would impact their path to FIRE? Lauren and I want to try that for a couple years but haven’t really detailed out how that changes things yet. Saw this post on r/fatFIRE and it got me thinking about it: https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/comments/ecp2ua/expat_as_a_path_to_fatfire/
If you have researched it and have any resources, please share! I’d love to read
tons of my friends live abroad currently, but they are not in tech and are still figuring out their career but honestly it seems nice
the ideal I think is to move with a large company and have the cushion of a job in a new country. you will make a pay cut but as you establish a life there, you’ll network and be able to forge a path. since moving - i’ve seen the benefits and don’t think i’ll move back to seattle any time soon (or ever). Eventually, we are considering going aborad after we have established time here and saved up.
Moving to a cheaper place has been beneficial and allowed us to save more. Once Michael is here, he is going to push for higher pay even when remote due to the performance since starting at his new job.
+1 to moving with a big company. That’s our tentative plan to try and get the company to pay for our relocation.
Damn good for you guys! That’s the dream right there. HCOL pay for remote work 👌
Besides being able to save more, how’s Chicago been? :)
I love Chicago a lot despite the chilly days lately. It has a lot to do and just feels like a big city. It will be great once long distance is over, plus i’m tired of flying back and forth to Seattle every 3 weeks. If anyone is ever in the area, would love to show you around!
Yeah Chicago is a huge city (at least vs Seattle)! Wow I didn’t realize you were traveling so frequently back here - that is a lot. Lauren and I really want to visit Chicago. We have a trip outlined we just need to pull the trigger. There is a restaurant we want to try out there. It’s called Alinea. Hopefully we get out there soon we will definitely hit you up!
Ah that is on my list as well!! If you are sushi people, check out Mako. I went there last weekend and it was fantastic!
I find plane tickets for around $200 roundtrip. Plus if you get a hotel, let me know first to see if I can get you a deal.
Oh that's right you have the Expedia hookup! Lol noted. And we love sushi so thanks for the recommendation 🙂 Yeah Chicago has a bunch to offer so I'm excited to visit
FYI - good discussions on the consequences of Wealthfront's Stock-level Tax-Loss Harvesting (formerly known as Direct Indexing) that makes you think twice about using it:
Wealthfront's provided info about it and the assumptions they make in their analyses and decision-making:
Taxes and investing is too complicated.
Note that by default you are opted into STLH and will be activated automatically when you qualify at $100k. You can change that setting under "Your Investment Strategy" within your investment account with them.
TL;DR - aside from the uncertainty of its effectiveness and assumptions, if you ever suspect you might want to leave Wealthfront you should turn off STLH ASAP so you don't automatically have it enabled for you when you qualify at $100k.
Anybody seen this before? Kinda cool if you can reasonably estimate many of the parameters
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/buy-rent-calculator.html
Brand new year, same IRA limits. Pump that $6k in early to maximize those tax-free gains!!
4% SWR? Maybe. Maybe not.
https://earlyretirementnow.com/2016/12/07/the-ultimate-guide-to-safe-withdrawal-rates-part-1-intro/
Wow, I didn’t know what I was getting myself into. I will need to take some time to read this
Same. Lots of content here. I’ve only read a couple of the posts so far
Anyone know of some good money/investing podcasts out there?
I haven’t listened to any podcasts about personal finance. I have listened to Planet Money, but its focus is the economy, which is probably not quite what you’re looking for.
Very interesting....
https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/comments/ese2ac/thinking_about_buying_a_kfcstarbucks/
One of my uncles owns commercial properties like this for a living. He swears by it and it sounds like it's very fruitful. Just a pretty high bar of entry for most people.
Wow that's awesome you have that connection in your family! From what I gathered from reading, it is pretty hands-of-the-wheel once you've got everything purchased and setup. But yeah, high bar of entry for sure.
Do you think you'd ever try to work out a deal with your uncle to see if you can go in on a property with him? Would help you learn the ropes and get a nice passive income stream.
That's cool, Brandon! It piques my interest for sure, but seems a little daunting
@brandon how’s your uncle business/investment doing in this down turn?
Not sure, haven't talked to him. But I imagine it's not going to be good if businesses start closing!
Good article on HSAs if you don't already know about them:
I hope you all do already know about them! I feel bad because I haven't set one up yet 😞
Do you also have a Limited FSA for dental/vision? I don’t know how much dentists cost 😬 how much do you normally elect to contribute for dental?
I don't have an fsa. Do I remember correctly that you can either do fsa or HSA, but not both?
If you have a HSA, there is a special type of FSA that the IRS allows you to have alongside your HSA: the Limited Purpose FSA
It is restricted to dental+vision expenses, since your HSA only covers medical expenses. This might depend on your employer offering a LP-FSA.
But yeah you’re right that you can’t have the normal FSA (covering medical/dental/vision) if you have an HSA.
Oh interesting, I don’t recall hearing about LP-FSA’s.
The thing I recall being a bummer about FSA’s is that its use-it-or-lose-it, on a per year basis. I am sure you have done more research than I about FSA’s, so I’d love to hear what you learn about them.
Missed your reply Sam... but yeah the use-it-or-lose-it rule is what deterred me from setting one up. Lame. Gonna pass for now.
Definitely consider it Brandon! It’s a great vehicle to save (invest!) for your more-or-less inevitable healthcare costs down the road. And if not, it converts to a normal IRA after age 65!
Although the election this year has got me thinking how Medicare-for-All would impact this
I haven’t heard anything about it. Just curious if it would be. M4A would eliminate medical costs so HSAs won’t be very justifiable
Legit if true!
https://www.reddit.com/r/wealthfront/comments/f3bqec/got_an_email_survey_from_wealthfront_looks_like/
I somehow thought they already offered a cash account. This is cool! I am pretty tied to Ally, because I have a bunch of accounts there. I do like Welathfront for investing though. They make it so simple!
They do already have a cash account, but this implies they’re adding features of a checking account to it: direct deposit, bill pay, and atm access/withdrawals. I’m imagining a world where you don’t have an emergency fund in a different account separate from your checking account, instead you just have this cash account where your paychecks directly are deposited to, and bills are paid from, and all your cash is earning the high interest
Ahhh I see, thanks for clarifying! That would be an ideal world. It seems like that might be happening here, which would be fantastic.
Agreed! I can’t tell from the description whether the card they are describing is only an ATM card or whether it can also be used for purchases like a normal debit card. It also seems like actual check writing is missing. But I don’t remember the last time I wrote a check
Good questions! Surprisingly I feel like i write more checks than I use atms or debit cards, but all are pretty rare.
Really? That’s interesting. What do you write checks for?
I do understand not using atms/debit cards often. I typically only use an atm at the rec shop to pull out cash for the goods. Similarly, I really only use debit cards to get cash back at the store (for the rec shop) rather than using an atm
Hmm, let’s see…I don’t write checks on any regular basis, but I occasionally have to write them for some one off situation.
Haha yeah that is the only reason I use a debit card also
Surprisingly good write up on Social Security:
https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/f99n8d/social_security_and_fire/
Thanks for sharing! I was looking for something financial-related to read this evening
Choosing to rollover my 401k to my new employer during this time was probably a mistake🤦♂️ Now I just have to hope it keeps on dipping until the money gets reinvested by my new 401k broker. There is a chance it will work out in my favor but it probably won't.
FFFFFFFF. Any strong alternatives?
https://blog.wealthfront.com/wealthfront-cash-account-127-apy-fed-funds-rate-decrease/
Right!? I’m so excited. We just finished re-building our emergency fund after the house purchase, so perfect timing now that all surplus income is going straight into the market.
It’s also a great time to do some tax loss harvesting
I actually just transferred everything out of Wealthfront and to Vanguard. Now I the only thing/person responsible for my holdings
@andelink Interesting development! Tell me more about what made you want to do that? Did you make the sale after the market downturn or before?
So luckily it wasn’t a sale. You can transfer all your Wealthfront securities “in-kind” to any other ACAT-eligible firm. This means no selling of assets and no taxable-events. Just my securities are now held and brokered by Vanguard.
I did it early February before the market was making these swings. Two reasons primarily:
- Wanted to get away from the 0.25% Wealthfront fee
- Wanted more control of my portfolio in order to simplify it down to like 3 funds
I’ve been reading a lot about the three fund portfolio and it’s ideal for me in terms of simplicity and risk management. Couldn’t execute on that until getting my funds out of Wealthfront.
Oh right! I forgot about that. That is fantastic!
Very interesting! Teach me more about your 3-fund plan 🙂
The three-fund was popularized by Jack Bogle's (founder of Vanguard) investment philosophy and his followers aka Bogleheads. It is a simple portfolio of the two basic asset classes: stocks and bonds.
The 3 fund portfolio allocates assets across US stock, International stock, and US bonds. For example, my AA is:
- 70% US stock (most popular fund: VTSAX)
- 20% INTL stock (most popular fund: VTIAX)
- 10% US bonds (most popular fund: VBTLX)
I like the simplicity a lot. I spent a bunch of time yesterday refreshing myself on which funds I want to start putting money into again. I had been primarily in Vanguard Total Stock Market before I sold them to pay the downpayment. Now I have a chance to reevaluate since I am sort of starting from scratch again.
I accidentally hit enter before finishing my note. Updated now.
The simplicity is what sold me. Wealthfront was great to get me started and to help me form habits of saving/investing first before anything else. But as I learned more about it, I figured I could do this on my own and avoid the fees. And simplifying it down to three funds really helped me wrap my head around where my money was going and helped me feel in control vs WF taking my money and black-boxing it.
The Bogleheads wiki and forums have lots of good resources:
Yeah if you are revisiting your investment strategy, I highly recommend reading up on the Bogelheads way to see if it fits your goals
I had read the bogleheads’ material about 2 years ago…probably time to freshen up 🙂 I have also been reading about dividend investing, specifically VHYAX and VDADX funds. With the goal to have a chunk of my future income be from dividends, a ~3.5% dividend yield is very appealing.
With my risk profile, WF had invested my money into 12 different funds. So my plan was to move them to Vanguard and sell/buy/rebalance down to three funds according to my AA. And your AA should be across all your different accounts (401k, IRA, HSA, taxable). Wealthfront made it hard to own that.
Yeah I can understand how Wealthfront makes it hard to get that kind of insight. It has its pros and cons. It is great if you want want to have hands off approach and get tax loss-harvesting, rebalancing, etc… without any work, but if you want more control, it isn’t the right fit. I am still torn between the 2, because I like the auto rebalancing and tax loss harvesting capabilities,
I've read different things about dividend investing. Some argue for it and others argue that it doesn't achieve the gains of your normal high/mid-cap stock funds. But there is something to be said about the idea or psychological security/convenience of living off of investment dividends rather than liquidating your investments for cash flow.
Regardless though: keep your high dividend/turnover funds in your tax-advantaged accounts
Yep same, I have heard different opinions, which makes it tricky to make a decision. I will likely do some split between VTSAX and the two dividend funds…but not sure what kind of split yet.
Totally agree. I had played with the idea of moving away from WF for a while. Still nervous about managing everything on my own and not messing up lol. And I still recommend WF to everyone I talk to about getting started with investing. Great for getting your toes wet.
I wish my 401k had dividend funds available. Limited to my IRA for tax-advantaged accounts 😕
Are you thinking about doing the dividend funds now or are your talking about retirement?
Still trying to understand it better, but I’d probably start allocation partially to them now. The vanguard dividend funds haven’t been around for decades, but their 10-year return is only 1% below the vtsax, so my interpretation is they still benefit from a lot of the market gains. Granted of course there will be some missing out, b/c they don’t contain the high-growth companies.
Gotcha gotcha. I'm guessing there is less risk as well if the dividend funds aren't comprised of the typical growth stocks? I'm not too familiar with the specifics here
Yeah, a bit less risk indeed for that reason. My understanding is they are comprised of older, safer companies, with the cash flow that enables them to provide higher than average dividends. Since it tracks an index, you can find the exact algorithm used to pick the companies it holds. It was a pretty simple set steps.
Got it that makes sense. I’m surprised to hear it’s only 1% less return than VTSAX. Sounds like a good deal assuming the fees are similar
I was surprised to see that as well. Their dividend fund has only been around since 2006, so it is not as old, but I was happy to see over the last 10 years both funds have benefited similarly while the economy has been doing well.
All the old-timers in these forums say that anyone who got started investing in the last 10 years is in for a rude awakening lol
Haha, yeah I bet there are a lot of people who are not mentally prepared for it. All they have known is market gains, not losses.
It would really suck if you just started your retirement like in Jan of this year. A fast lesson on sequence-of-returns risk if they weren’t prepared
Oh yeah that would be terrible. Hopefully they are prepared to tighten their belts and live off less of their investments until the market comes back a bit.
It’d be hard to do. I need to have enough Uber Eats money in retirement.
I don't know how to time my buys though. I buy and it keeps going down. I should have started our smaller with equally spaced out buys. Need to update my strategy.
Every year I owe money to the tax man.
But right now I’m sitting on too much cash from selling off my remaining Amazon shares (back in Feb with AMZN ~$2100) and my signing bonus from Lyft.
Historically I try to lump sum invest but with a falling market I’m trying to DCA over a longer time period
So I’m thinking about how to time them way too much - and doing poorly as a consequence
DCA for the win! That is good that you owe them money, even though it feels like a bummer
Agreed in theory it is better than getting a large return. But this year I owe over $2000. I’d prefer to owe <$100
And there are penalties for consistently owing too much every year. Not sure what the details/thresholds are on that though
lol yeah exactly! The IRS suggested I do estimated tax payments throughout the year, which I’d really rather avoid.
What is the cause? Was Amazon not taking enough out of your paycheck? Are you incurring a lot of capital gains?
Sorry been in meetings.
Yeah, my bill this year was due to realizing some capital gains. I was expecting to owe about $1500 from some of my sales, but I had forgotten about some I had made very early on in the 2019 tax year. And then the default witholding Morgan Stanley was using for my Amazon RSU vests was lower than my maginal tax rate. Thus my higher tax bill
Gotcha. I think Salesforce and/or expedia withheld a ton of taxes for me, b/c I sold a lot of stocks to pay for the downpayments and realized quite a bit of capital gains, but stillll got a huge tax return.
It’s way too hard to estimate your year end tax bill
Best/favorite financial-related subreddits? I won’t yet mention which ones I already follow, as to not bias your replies 🙂
Here's my custom feed of finance-esque subreddits:
I should probably remove some of them.
My favorite is without a doubt r/fatFIRE. I also like r/Bogleheads (wish it was more active), r/investing, and r/financialindependence (sometimes feels like nothing new here though).
r/churning is interesting but I haven't really tried it out for myself.
What are yours?
And.... FOLLOW. Haha. I wasn't aware of the ability to create custom feeds. Awesome!
Haha yeah I made it to share with Lauren primarily, to give her stuff to read that I thought was useful
That's awesome, good idea. I will definitely be using it, instead of flipping back and forth between the multiple subs that I have been using.
Nice 😊 well let me know if you have another subs that should be added. I’m always looking out for more!
Yeah I like to read about it even if it’s not immediately applicable for me
Looks like a potential competitor of Mint Also appears to have some additional features, and seems more actively developed than Mint. Mint is owned by Intuit, and I don’t think they develop Mint much. Mint has been pissing me off recently. It fails to connect to my accounts way too often. Many have been broken for months. Sorry, had to blow off some steam 🙂 I will keep looking into TrueBill and update here with my findings.
lol no need to apologize this is a safe space. Yeah Mint has let me down too. Personal Capital also can’t connect to my bank account for some reason. Wealthfront is the only connector I use now, but that’s obviously very limited in capability.
Please share what you learn and if you think it’s worth trying out!
I am leaning towards personal capital at the moment. I have to vet their budgeting tools a bit more before fully committing. PersonalCapital has improved since I tried it ~3 years ago. A few of the account connections are broken, but their customer service has been incredibly responsive so far.
I like Personal Capital's interface the best and the different ways they allow you to look at your portfolio across all of your different accounts. I wanted it to work so badly but it just could not connect to my checking BoA accounts (one checking account and one credit card). Until it does or until I leave BoA, it just doesn't work for me. I would really like it to though.
Their sales calls are annoying, however.
That is a bummer. I am having trouble with connections too. I am hoping they get resolved
I recently was trying to find a new budget tool and realized how stupid it is that all of these connectors require you to give them your bank password. That's not how it should work. So, I'm rebelling against all connectors and Kelli and I have been trying YNAB for the past month or so.
Yeah it is. Sucks to see your portfolio value drop. But 12 months from now should be back to normal hopefully.
I love thinking how many more shares I can buy with the same amount of money
Love the positivity. Hopefully this will bounce back like previous bear markets. Can only assume that it will otherwise I won’t know what to do. Certainly not gonna liquidate everything like a crazy person so fingers crossed it recovers. It has to right? So much fear on reddit I feel like it’s a bad time to be reading what other people are thinking because so many of them are inclined to think it’s the end of times
Edit: spelling errors, on mobile my bad
I believe the MMM/BogleHead/etc… philosophy is that as long as you believe the US economy will recover and return gains by the time you want to retire, then you will come out ahead. If covid19 wipes out some huge percentage of humans, then yeah maybe the economy won’t recover to its current level in our life time, but the health experts are saying it isn’t thatttt deadly. Deadlier than the seasonal flu by a long shot, but it isn’t kill off like every 1/4 people or anything at that level.
Yeah, not that bad. It seems that some people just are itching for a devastating, long-term crash based on how they talk. But yeah I agree that based on my (our?) retirement timelines the only rational thing to do is keep buying and hold the course. And with that in mind, the low prices are awesome lol can buy much more than the previous prices allowed.
This is a recent post on r/fatFIRE I've been meaning to read. It's super long but has some non-indexing non-Boglehead opinions that I think would be worth reading about:
Has anyone moved their cash elsewhere since Wealthfront dropped their APY 0.26%? Not that there are other higher yield savings accounts but, maybe something clever idk
I haven’t used Wealthfront for cash. Did they recently drop it to 0.26? My cash has been in Ally savings accounts.
Yeah around March 17th they dropped it to 0.26% APY due to the feds dropping their rates. What’s Ally at?
I'm in the process of moving my cash to Marcus by Goldman Sachs. Kelli has been using them for at least the past year and they have stayed consistent at 1.7% through all of this. Check it out.
Thanks Brandon this was 🔥 just opened up and funded my account
Nice! Out of curiosity, is this an emergency fund, or are you saving for something in particular? Feel free to not answer if you don't want of course :)
Well right now it's emergency fund + cash from my recent signing bonus. Slowly deploying the signing bonus to vanguard funds but dollar cost averaging in over time
...well, that sucks. How many times do we have to move our money 😭 Watch, next month Ally will drop to 1.2%
Also, don't you lose a month of interest every time you switch banks? Might be worth letting things settle for a couple months before moving it anymore lol
Watch, next month Ally will drop to 1.2%
Yeah so true. Likely will happen.
Also, don’t you lost a month of interest every time you switch banks?
Hmm I guess I did not consider when the interest is compounded before I switched. Good point I should confirm that first. You are referring to when interested is compounded, right? Or something else?
Yes, and the fact that a bank probably doesn't give you interest for a partial month. But I could be wrong, I don't really know what I'm talking about.
You guys called it! I just got this email
Because of this, the Annual Percentage Yield (APY) for your Online Savings Account is changing from 1.50% APY to 1.25% APY on all balance tiers
@brandon following up on this...
From the Marcus Savings FAQ:
How often does Marcus pay interest?
Interest is compounded daily and credited monthly to your account. Interest is calculated using the daily balance method. This method applies a daily periodic rate to the principal and interest that has accrued in the Account each day. This means that the interest from your Account is calculated every day on a 365-day year/ 366-day for leap years.
I believe this means the interest associated with the day's ending balance, gets added to the next day's beginning balance, even though interest is only paid out monthly. In this case, I don't think any interest is lost with a partial month (assuming money is moved to an account that offers an equal or better APY).
From the Ally site:
Your money earns money with interest compounded daily.
Since it is also compounded daily I don't think the interest accrued in the partial month before funds are withdrawn would be lost. Couldn't find anything on Ally about when interest is paid out. Probably monthly as well.
Of course if the account is closed or dips below the minimum funds requirement, then I wouldn't be so sure you'd get your interest paid out for that month.
The Wealthfront APY and compound frequency is worse than both Ally and Marcus. It's APY is 0.35%, and, according to its FAQ:
... interest accrues daily and compounds monthly. The interest payment is calculated based on your cash account's daily balance during a given month.
So - if I understand this correctly - interest is earned every day on your account balance, but the interest itself doesn't earn further interest until the close of the month (when it compounds). Not as good as compounding daily, but since interest still accrues daily, you shouldn't lose out on any interest if you withdraw your funds in the middle of the month.
I'd argue the most annoying part about moving your money to different accounts is dealing with the various 1099-INTs when filing your taxes
Agreed. Nice, thanks for the info! At least my money isn't in Wealthfront anymore!
Truth! That cash account was too good to be true. At one point was at 2.57%! The good ole days
Ugh, Ally usually follows shortly after Marcus. I will prepare myself for the email 😭
I loved reading MMM's take on all this. I found the deaths/year projections especially interesting. When I first looked at them I didn't understand the dip that occurs afterwards but he explains it in the article. Good read!
It's a along shot, but by any chance does this mean that applying for loans will not result is a hard inquiry?
Hmmm good question. Thinking about another house?
Always haha...but I won't be buying in the very near future. Plenty of maintenance work to be done on the current houses.
I enjoy it. Learning how to maintain a house is more like a hobby for me, so it is easy to put time into it
Nice quick analysis of ESPP:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fire/comments/gjm89k/employee_stock_purchase_plan/fqmfwnp/
Nice, that was fun to read. I signed up for my ESPP as quick as I could! 😁
Hey gang I got this from a guy who knows a guy LOL made by an investment professional idk used for evaluating residential/commercial real estate purchases thought you might be curious
My salary has been reduced by 10% and I now have to pay for breakfast and lunch
But I am glad to see a lot of folks saving more money 😁
rough life… I saved money by reducing going out to eat, and we are now homebodies because we have a new pup
Gonna be important to have a good routine and healthy habits and solid mental health because we still have a very long way to go. Not even half-way done yet
Kinda interesting comments in this r/fatFIRE thread about tax evasion (specifically CA):
Moving internet business to state with no income tax
Apparently the IRS has been known to ask for cell tower data to see where you’ve been spending your time, if they think you’re trying to evade taxes somehow. Would have never guessed
if you ever get caught, i will say i told ya so
Estimated tax resources
Am I Required to Make Estimated Tax Payments?
FAQ - Individuals
Penalty for Underpayment of Estimated Tax
Here's how and when to pay estimated taxes
Pay As You Go, So You Won’t Owe: A Guide to Withholding, Estimated Taxes, and Ways to Avoid the Estimated Tax Penalty
Guide from Turbo Tax
2020 Estimated Tax Template
When are quarterly estimated tax payments due?
For estimated tax purposes, the year is divided into four payment periods. Each period has a specific payment due date. If you don't pay enough tax by the due date of each payment period, you may be charged a penalty even if you're due a refund when you file your income tax return at the end of the year.
If you mail your estimated tax payment and the date of the U.S. postmark is on or before the due date, the IRS will generally consider the payment to be on time. If you use IRS Direct Pay, you can make payments up to 8 p.m. Eastern time on the due date. If you use a credit or a debit card, you can make payments up to midnight on the due date.
I imagine all of you might be in situations requiring estimated tax payments at some point (driven by RSU income). In general, you must pay at least 90% of your taxes throughout the year through withholding, estimated tax payments, or a combination of the two. If you don't, you will have to pay an estimated tax penalty - except for your first year in violation, in which case you get a warning and then every year after you are in violation you get a penalty. I got a warning last year so this is my first year I'm gonna pay estimated taxes (hence the resources) 😢
Hmm… I probably need to look into this. I am going to be selling my first chunk of RSUs in sept/oct
Reminder that quarterly tax payments are due today if you need to pay
Thankfully my first RSUs vest in oct. Also, from what I can tell, it sounds like ETrade (where my RSUs are at) will optionally handle paying the taxes for me by selling some of the shares.
Yes they should. Note that brokerages don't normally get the withholding correct tho for RSU vesting. Never been able to set mine at least. 22% is what is being withheld from my vests at Lyft, and it was the same at Amazon. But my effective tax rate is higher than 22% so I usually owe more taxes on them still.
I was noticing the same thing, that I don’t seem to be able to set my tax rate…that seems like an obvious oversight
r u kidding me. i hope some of y'all owned some $tsla and were able to enjoy this ride
It is just the beginning. Not too late to get in. Tesla is going to take it all. 9 of the 10 largest companies in the world are either automotive or energy companies. Tesla is years ahead of all other “competitors” in those industries w.r.t. electric
maybe after the stock split it might be a better time
who knows maybe current investors benefit from stock splits and thus getting in before the split might be "better"
I would hope that the value of the stock that you own stays constant through a stock split, but I haven't actually confirmed that. It would be pretty messed up if it didn't though.
I recall my dad making some offhand remark a while back about $AAPL share owners making bank off their first stock split way back when. But I wouldn't trust my dad on this topic and I haven't verified this on my own.
I'd also guess and hope and assume in theory that a stock split is as it reads: a split of existing single shares into multiple shares such that the value of existing positions do not change
Nothing is really changing. It just makes it easier for retail investors to buy the stock, since not everyone has access to fractional shares.
@andelink Of course nothing is certain, but if Tesla continues to execute on their plans as effectively as they have over the past 17 years, the company could definitely justify an even higher valuation than today's. They have a lot of opportunities to enable more growth, but of course none are guaranteed:
* Scaling auto production to tens of millions of cars per year (i e. Toyota-level production)
* Scaling battery production (and selling batteries to other companies, since Tesla is years ahead is battery tech/chemistry)
* FSD/robotaxi/infotainment in cars once cars are fsd
* Energy capture (solar) and energy storage (battery/powerwall), and energy distribution (autobidder). Many analysts expect energy to be even larger than their auto business eventually.
There are also more smaller reasons that Tesla is killing it that make auto experts believe it is already game over and Tesla has already won. For example, Sandy Munro ( the auto expert of auto experts) does tear downs (literally disassembles) teslas and is always stunned how quickly they are changing the car internals to make them more efficient, safer, cheaper to manufacture,etc.... He has given Tesla feedback that they integrate in their production line within 3 months, which is unprecedented for an auto company. Tesla is and behaves like a tech company (iterative improvements, relentlessly optimizing, which old auto companies don't do). Many folks say Tesla is a tech company with a current manifestation in cars, not a car company.
Sorry for the rambling haha.
Even though the future of everything is uncertain, I personally plan to invest more in Tesla, even at the current valuation, for a little while. At some point I will divert money to other investments and sit back and see how Tesla does.
I was trying to get in before the split but transfer days take so long
Literally can't even get money into Robinhood before Monday
One opyion: You can buy individual stocks (not partial stocks though) via vanguard. And vanguard credits your account as soon as you schedule a transfer of money.
Good youtube channels on Tesla, incase you’re interested:
- (Almost strictly tesla content)
- (Smart guy has been covering Tesla for a few years now)
- (Not Tesla-specific, but does some episodes about Tesla)
- (Not Tesla-specific, but they do segments about Tesla)
I didn't want to print out their cancellation form, fill it out, and then mail it to their headquarters in CA. So I swapped out my payment info for a privacy.com card that's configured with a $1 max limit so that all of their attempts to charge me are automatically declined. (I guess I could just pause the card instead.) So what we see here is their repeated attempts to charge me their monthly membership fee ($32.95) getting declined.
Then they tried $5. Why? Who knows. Maybe they are thinking I must have at least $5 of funds that they can get their grubby hands on. Pretty sleazy. Idk
Wow, that's ridiculous. I feel like you've explained this before but I still don't understand why you can't just go to the West Seattle location by TJs and cancel in person? We didn't have any trouble just telling them we wanted to close the membership.
Yeah I remember you saying you were able to cancel in-person. But I only heard that after I had read their formal cancellation requirements and had switched to this new payment method. Now it's largely been out of curiosity to see how much they'll keep this up.
I made the switch back in February 2020. They were very active trying to charge me and calling me multiple times a day all through March. Then it was silent from end of March until August 20th. Since August 20th they've been spamming me again. Pretty ridiculous
Gotcha. Yeah, that is ridiculous. They are putting a lot of effort into this.
lol this is hilarious. I had totally missed this thread. I hadn’t heard of privacy.com before
It's dope. I highly highly recommend. I use it quite a bit. I think I have 14 cards right now. Only downside is it doesn't support credit cards as a fund source - at least when I started using it.
If you sign up, use my referral so we both get $5 in credit to spend:
cc @spkaplan @brandon @tiaalexa @keenin @r.taylor @kellikatzer
Shitty account activity page from Intuit. Gives you activity with no timestamps or location!
Well I guess maybe the funds in my plan are more an issue with Lyft-Fidelity rather than just Fidelity
I recently discovered a feature of theirs called Brokeragelink, which let's you create a brokerage account, transfer your 401k funds to it, and invest in ANYTHING, with all the same tax benefits as if it was still in your 401k. This changed my world.
I remember looking into that when I was setting up my shit at Lyft. I remember deciding against it, but I don't remember exactly why
Now I wanna look into it again to see what I was thinking about it
For sure. It is a way to invest the money in your 401k in anything, like a normal brokerage account. It was super easy to set up. General steps are: 1) create the brokeragelink account 2) transfer money from to brokeragelink account 3) invest money in whatever 4) repeats steps 2 and 3 as more money gets contributed to your 401k.
So, then it begs the question, whether you want to invest in something that is not offered by the normal 401k.
Why wouldn't you want full control? I guess 401k accounts sometimes have access to target date funds that aren't publicly accessible?
Also, do you have to manually transfer the funds every time?
I guess depends on what you want to invest in. If the normal 401k has the funds you want to invest in, then no point dealing w/ brokeragelink. I haven't found a way to automatically transfer to brokeragelink and invest, unfortunately.
ESPP is fuckin lit buy $LYFT at ~$24/share but it's trading for ~$40/share... and all using pre-tax money welp wrong it's post-tax but still
Admittedly this gain is unusual and probably unique to rn
My espp is good, but not as good as yours. I will get them at 150, currently trading at ~250
I will get them at 150, currently trading at ~250That's great man lol
In theory the stock price could go sideways in those two days and fuck everything up but unlikely
i don’t think i have one either, but I have heard it is common to have a holding period
eg my espp executed the buy on 11/13 and I will sell them tomorrow
Lyft is finally allowing after-tax 401k contributions starting 2021, which means mega backdoor roth is now available 🙌 Does anyone do this now? I'd like to rollover after-tax contributions to my Roth IRA. I've been doing backdoor Roth IRA manually once/year for the IRA limit ($6k). These are different limits right? We can do both backdoor for the $6k IRA limits and then the mega backdoor for after-tax 401k contributions, correct?
Nice! This is awesome. Unfortunately, I still haven’t done the whole backdoor thing. I have it on my todo list, but still haven’t gotten around to it yet.
Does anyone have a financial advisor? I just dont know what I should be doing
I think there is a few of us here happy to share our acquired knowledge... and opinions 🙂
I spend $1350 on rent.
I don't do the budgeting thing well. I'm terrible at budgeting. I start with my saving/investing goals and then whatever I have left after saving/investing I spend (or save) as freely as I'd like
I just save (401k and savings) and just every year put a chunk in my other investment accounts
I am a big fan of auto rules - it's like I dont even know how much my paycheck is
Oh idk... probably not as much as it should be. Maybe around 50%? But depends on what you consider to be the numerator/denominator. Could be higher
Like on a annual total income basis, it is def higher than 50%
- Auto max out 401k
- Auto max out HSA
- Auto take a $ amount of each paycheck and put into (taxable) investment accounts
- Manually max out IRA at the start of each year
I bet @spkaplan and @brandon have their budgets and saving percentages squared away
Kyle’s 4 bullets above are the best first steps for sure. The reason to max out HSA and IRA are b/c they have tax advantages (i.e. in one way or another you pay less tax on $ put into those accounts)
Yeah my bullet points assume the user to have the financial wherewithal to hit the maximum contribution limits of each type of retirement account
Yep understood. Another question... so I use fidelity for my 401-k through expedia. should I use them as well for an IRA
My 401k is also w/ Fidelity. My IRA & taxable brokerage accounts are w/ Vanguard. I don’t have anything against Fidelity though.
I have Traditional IRA (non-roth), b/c income exceeds limit to have a roth-IRA (…correct me Kyle if I got this mixed up). However you can do some fancy stuff moving $ from a Traditional IRA to a Roth IRA, which Kyle is more familiar with than I
Priority order is (imo):
- Cash savings. Some people do 3 months of expenses. Some folks do 6. I think I do 3 months of paychecks.
- Retirement savings account - 401k if you have it, IRA if not.
- If maxing out 401k and you have additional money you'd like to stash away for retirement, do an IRA as well.
- Taxable investments.
Health insurance like an HDHP with HSA is a personal decision. Other considerations like when you'll need money (e.g. maybe a down payment for home) should influence when and where you put things.
My 401k is with Fidelity since that is the Lyft 401k plan. My Roth IRA is with Vanguard. My personal (taxable) investment accounts are also with Vanguard. My cash savings are currently in Marcus (online savings account). My checking account is with Bank of America (booooo they suck).
Also some play money in Robinhood
I don't bother with the HSA and have been doing the in plan roth conversion (mega backdoor through fidelity) instead of standard Roth IRA. Maxed out on ESPP (15%) which I pull out as soon as it lands in the account. YNAB for budgeting.
ESPP is almost guaranteed $$$$. If you are doing 401k and you aren't sure if you have enough for additional investments AND ESPP ... choose ESPP over IRA or after-tax whatever
@brandon is your mega backdoor rother conversion to a roth 401k or a roth ira?
Read the fine print of the ESPP, as some companies make you hold for something like 6 months before selling, which means you need to have confidence in your company’s stock to not fall
I haven't thought about ESPP since I usually get stock every review cycle and was offered a lot because I got screwed of a promotion.
Any reason why folks did Vanguard over Fidelity? Just trying to see if its a personal choice or if it's better in some way
There is something to say for not being too concentrated in 1 stock, but if you plan to sell the ESPP shares immediately, than it is really just like cash to you.
Usually not recommended to hold onto stock purchased through ESPP (because like you said you already are over-indexed on your company stock), but selling immediately once you can is typically a great investment compared to other options in the same time window
I don’t recall why I did Vanguard over Fidelity. No strong reason I can recall.
Yeah, luckily mine doesn't have a holding period. You should do ESPP on top of your stock if you are ok letting the company hold your money for a bit longer. I sell the stock awards right away too. It's usually free money because of the discount you get. But yeah, check the holding period and discount rate.
Any reason why folks did Vanguard over Fidelity?Vanguard has a terrible UI but they historically have been all about the little investor. They also make it very easy to trade equities. Also the step-by-step guide I followed for the back door roth used Vanguard 😆
Yeah, I sell my RSUs and ESPP immediately, as to not have too much of 1 stock.
Other fidelity users should see if they have this option when changing their contribution.
Hmm yeah I'm guessing it's 401k too then. I think a "rollover" is what it'd be if it goes from 401k --> IRA
Okay wow so much knowledge in this thread. Thank you - I may reach out if I have more questions but seriously I appreciate it
@tiaalexa you asked about Traditional IRA vs Roth IRA. I choose Roth. There are reasons here:
Roth you get tax-free growth and withdrawals. Traditional IRA is tax deferred so you pay taxes when you withdraw from it in retirement.
Roth has no required minimum distributions. Traditional does have RMDs.
Because Roth is after-tax contributions, you can withdraw the principal (ie your contribution amounts) from your account even before retirement without any tax or penalties (the money is yours after all with taxes already paid on it). Traditional IRAs have both penalties and taxes for early withdrawals of any amount.
Another more nuanced thing is that if you already contribute to a tax-deferred 401k (like I believe we all do) AND you make above a certain amount each year - todo: what is this amount??), you would NOT get the tax benefits of a traditional IRA anyways... leaving the only IRA with tax benefits to be the Roth
@tiaalexa also, i don't think anything in this thread talks about what to invest in... only where to invest it. Once you put money into an account type (401k, IRA, etc), you still need to decide what to invest in. This could be mutual funds, individual stocks, bonds, target-date funds, options blah blah blah.
Yeah sorry for the information overload. I strongly believe this shit is way too complicated and purposefully so to screw us little fish over
But the good news is that simply saving your money anywhere for the long-term is most of the battle
Haha yeah we totally slipped WHAT to invest in lol. This is where it becomes more subjective.
Posted using /giphy | GIF by Late Night with Seth Meyers
okay I think I need more guidance on the IRA's ... idk what to pick for what to invest in for a Roth IRA
Brandon and Sam were talking recently about some Ark funds maybe
I totally agree with Kyle's recommendation.
Additionally, it is important to understand the basics of investing, for example:
* What is stock?
* What is a bond?
* What other forms of investments are available?
* Active vs passive investing?
** What is a mutual fund, what is an index fund?
With just a little reading, you will feel a whole lot more knowledgeable about your options. I know i did :)
That did help but wow my brain is tired 😅 I think what is annoying is all the tools there are to "help you invest".
Maybe I've become one of those people who just wants convenience all the time
I'm glad this thread has been helpful! Yeah, I wish "convenience" and "investing" went hand in hand. Unfortunately, without being able to see into the future, no investment is ever a sure thing.
Yeah I think the main focus for me right now is understanding the risk involved with different types of investing and figure out what goals I have to determine my investment strategy.
Wealthfront is a reasonably convenient investment option
Fucken hate myself for selling my $TSLA at ~$500
Sure it is. What other company is going to be able to make electric vehicles at scale anytime soon (maybe vw)? What other company has an extensive charging network? What other company is positioning themselves to achieve fsd and scale its use? What other company sells everything they make without advertising? What other company can push software updates to their cars that improve practically every aspect of the car, including its performance (range, braking distance, acceleration)? What other company is developing new battery technology (4680 cells, dry electrode) and improving manufacturing processes (mega castings, structural batter pack, giga factories, robotics) to drive their costs down at comparable rates? Gas cars will be no more, and very few companies are showing they have the capability, or even desire, to make electric vehicles at scale.
no, i mean, it's not right how it keeps going up AFTER i sold
Haha ahhh I gotcha 😁
Nah, I didn't start researching tesla early enough in the year to buy enough before it went up. The returns have been good, but I expect more, so still holding.
Reverse engineering the potential revenue and profits from robo taxi, or if you don't expect that to come to fruition, then just from selling cars, based on the number of batteries they plan to produce over the course of this decade, the stock is still incredibly cheap.
Looking for some help interpreting this fund. It's categorized as a large growth fund but it says that it seeks to "provide capital appreciation over a market cycle relative to the Russell 3000 Growth Index through the active management of equities across a broad segment of the equity markets" which makes it sound like it is a more actively managed flavor of the Russel 3000. And my understanding is that the Russel 3000 tracks the top 3k US companies which make up 98% of the US economy. If that's the case, then if I invested in a fund like this one I probably wouldn't invest too much more in small/mid cap since I already have something spans the majority of the US economy and don't want to lean too heavily on small/mid.
Side note: the YTD on this particular fund is ridiculous.
Initial thoughts/things that jumped out:
* Start date 2013. Nothing inherently wrong with this. In fact, considering the fund has such high YTD returns indicates to me that the fund picked companies who's growth is being accelerated by Covid, not those who's demise is being accelerated by Covid. Heck, my 401k (and some in my taxable account) is all in funds started in 2014.
* Seems to hold Nikola shares. Red flag for me. Nikola is a known fraud (allegedly). I question anyone who holds Nikola stock.
**I generally like their top holdings (no oil/gas, legacy automotive, brick & mortar). I can't find a list longer than their top 10 holdings. If you can find that, I'd really like to get a better idea of the type of stocks the fund owns.
It is not a public fund, right? Hense, no ticker symbol and generally not as much info online as other funds? Nothing wrong with this. Just making sure I'm not crazy.
Cool, thanks for the analysis. Yeah, I haven't been able to find a full list either which is why I am trying to interpret the description. I'm wondering how large of a spread the fund holds so that I can accurately distribute across large/mid/small. All I really have to go off of right now is the description on that link I sent and the top 10 holdings list.
And no, it's not a public fund. It looks like it's a private fidelity fund offered to 401k plans.
Without a longer list of their holdings or them sharing their research more publicly it is hard to understand their strategies, which means there needs to be a higher level of trust in the fund manager before giving them a bunch of your money. Maybe you can find people discussing the fund and/or fund manager on Reddit who know more details about it?
Ultimately, I think the most important thing to to ensure your money is being invested in the future, not the past. More specifically, in companies that will flourish and grow in the future, not those that will stagnate or decline. So, since it is an active fund, it is just important that you ensure the fund manager's view is aligned with yours.
As an example, I have been investing more into the Ark funds the past ~6 months, because I really like the fund manager's view and I trust she, and her researchers, will make good picks. And because I am becoming more wairy of indexing. Their research is all open, and they talk to the public about their research a lot, so it has been easy to understand their approach and then decide whether it aligns with my point of view.
Yeah, I appreciate you bringing the fund manager and company composition into consideration. I'll admit I haven't really done a great job of accounting for either of those things when looking at these larger index funds. But, I'm working on a 401k rebalance which I haven't done in a while and am trying to do my research since my choices are becoming more and more important as the balance grows and a rebalance seems like a good time to migrate from one fund to another if I want to.
Where did you hear about Ark funds? Do you have any favorite resources (blogs, podcasts, website, etc) for staying up to date on investing topics and researching different funds? I follow a bunch of subreddits but would like some more directed content.
Have you configured BrokerageLink for your 401k or are you just investing in Ark funds with "non retirement" money?
My experience finding the ark funds (a bit of a rambling story): Up until recently, I was all in passive funds (401k, taxable and ira), which of course don't require much research to know what companies you will be invested in, because they track simple indexes. It was about 6-9 months ago that I started researching tesla (nothing fancy, just tried to find smart people, mostly on youtube) (just out of curiosity about the company, not originally for the purpose of investing), and coincidentally a number of the youtubers I had come to respect mentioned the Ark funds once in a while. Then, i started watching lots of content (again, mostly youtube) from the ark funds' researchers, and ceo/cio (Cathie Wood). I really like almost everything they presented with regards to their research/investment strategy. I primarily decided to start investing in Ark's funds instead of passive funds because I was becoming wary of some of the industries that inevitably make up a portion of passive funds that I don't expect to do well in the coming decade (i.e. internal combustion engineer automakers, oil/gas, banks, etc...).
Yeah, I have setup brokeragelink for my 401k. All my investments (401k, ira, and taxable account) are either in tesla or Ark funds (for me, the Ark funds have taken on the role of passive funds (i.e. catch all/default investment)).
As for resources, there are a few youtubers I have come to really like that share their investing opinions. There are a lot of others who hype everything in sight, so don't listen to anyone haha.
Very cool, thanks for telling the story 😄 The Ark funds look really interesting and I like the philosophy. This is encouraging me to dig deeper and do more research on the funds available to me.
Did you encounter any gotchas with BrokerageLink? I assume you transferred everything to Vanguard?
Awesome! Let me know if you learning anything interesting and/or want to discuss further!
No gotchas, thankfully. It let me transfer it into a fidelity, not vanguard, brokerage account, but it worked well. It creates a new fidelity account for you. They make it easy.
Can someone explain "IV" stocks to me what are they and why is $TSLA a high IV stock?
From a quick google search, sounds like IV (Implied volatility) speaks about the expected volatility of a stock.
“Implied volatility (IV) is an estimate of the future volatility of the underlying stock based on options prices”
People in Lyft's #wealth-management channel were talking about options and were using the acronym
So if TSLA is high IV, does that mean it's share price is significantly influenced by TSLA options held by people?
Implied volatility is one of the deciding factors in the pricing of options. Buying options contracts lets the holder buy or sell an asset at a specific price during a pre-determined period. Implied volatility approximates the future value of the option, and the option's current value is also taken into consideration. Options with high implied volatility will have higher premiums and vice versa.
Reading this I realize I don't know enough about options
Same haha. I have actually been meaning to learn about them just to have that knowledge
Reminder quarterly estimated taxes are due today!
A great recent video from one of my favs: https://youtu.be/M2yvsmDvxvA
Please excuse the title. His titles aren't usually so click-baity.
Thanks for sharing! I'm eager to find new resources for furthering my financial/investing knowledge. I kind of think it would be cool to have some sort of "reading group" type thing to share resources and have discussions. We kind of already do that with this channel I guess but it would be cool to find something a bit more formal.
@brandon seriously, how should we start this :D we can just try something out and let it evolve
I am so down! It could be a fun way to get together virtually too. Not sure where to start though or what kind of structure it should take.
I was thinking the same thing about it being a fun reason to get together virtually. Let's just try something out (both content and structure), not overthink it, and we can evolve it over time.
Ok, sounds good. Do you have any article, video/series that you have been dying to discuss with someone? Or we could pick something neither of us know about yet like calls/puts/options and that sort of stuff. We just need to find a good resource for "homework"
Wow, that video kind of blew my mind. Thank you so much for sharing. I have a lot of research to do 😳
Awesome, glad you liked it! I like that youtuber a lot, have been watching his stuff for ~9 months now. We could start with that video for our "reading group"?
Yeah, I watched several more of his videos this morning and am watching some talks by Cathie Wood now as well.
Let's make this video our first topic 👍
That's music to me ears! I love Cathie Wood and Steven Mark Ryan's stuff. Cool! I'll rewatch the video and take some light notes. When do you want to meet?
I'm down for whenever. Weekends would be best just because I'm focused on work during the week but that would mean waiting until next Saturday/Sunday.
Agreed that weekends are best. I'm down to wait until next weekend or we could make an exception this week and plan for a time this week. I'm good either way. Your call :)
Let's just shoot for next weekend. That will give me time to pick up extra background knowledge on this stuff throughout the week.
A book I recently read that I just remembered is in line with the topic of this video is called "Abundance: The Future Is Better Than You Think". It is pretty similar to the video but touches on a few similar topics and provides some anecdotal stories/narrative.
The same question I always ask with these financial planning/budgeting tools, do you have to give them your bank creds?
Haven't confirmed yet but I believe with this one you enter your creds only when refreshing/pulling your account data and it calls the institution directly. Tiller is just a client-side spreadsheet wrapper for it
Cool, that would be nice. Not really sure you are looking for a budgeting tool but let me know if you want a YNAB referral. It's a cool product once you spend the time learning the philosophy and budgeting rules.
Bullish https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla-nancy-pelosi-options-buying/
No I’m hoping it crashes so I finally can feel okay about selling at $500
If they would hire me I wouldn't think as highly of them 😆 but for real, they have the pick of the best. The best engineers go ham when presented with the best mission, with a genius leader, a long term vision, with declining cost curves in battery and solar technologies, with vertical integration, and a competitive landscape lacking almost entirely of competition and any significant innovation in 100 years.
I can't find another company to be so pumped about. Forget stocks, they are just doing cool stuff for our future. I mean: gigapresses, fsd beta, fsd chip, power efficiency (octo valve, heat pump, battery management), factory efficiency, battery research and production, residential/commercial/utility scale power storage, solar panel systems, autobidder, 5-star vehicle safety ratings, no more stupid car dealerships
having such enthusiasm for a company is extraordinary
they'd be lucky to have you and you'd be lucky to be working for a company you have such excitement for
I have thought about it, but they expect people to work really hard and long hours from what I've heard. I'm want to keep my easy-ish gig for a bit longer before considering it
It's not long and hard (😏) if you have a passion for it
Like you said
The best engineers go ham when presented with the best mission, with a genius leader, a long term vision, with declining cost curves in battery and solar technologies, with vertical integration, and a competitive landscape lacking almost entirely of competition and any significant innovation in 100 years
I don’t think I’m the best, so getting hired in the first place would be a serious reach. Secondly, I would need to make sure I want to prioritize intense work over other life things…I think I will when I have more FU money
I would need to make sure I want to prioritize intense work over other life things…I think I will when I have more FU money
- intense work is what gets you FU money... never heard of getting FU money and then working harder...
- you shouldn't assume you will work insane hours at tesla
- My current gig is paying me disproportionally more compared to how demanding the work is. This makes me want to ride it out for a bit. Somehow I think once I have more FU money, I will then not feel the pressure to work, and will actually can be motivated to work for the right reasons, which will actually result in me working harder….I’m sure it’s obvious I have been thinking about this recently. Still trying to figure it out. Human brains are weird
- I totally agree with you on that. I really should do some more investigation on this. Or even hold off on making that assumption until interviewing, and asking interviewers about work-life balance
https://twitter.com/garcapital/status/1354463569392377859?s=21
Twitter
i have to imagine the downturn will be just as impressive and fun to watch
i am tempted, it is a great force multiplier. However, I have enough in tsla already, so if i was to buy calls it would probably need to be for something else
I'm surprised you put ~$20k into this from reddit discussions
next time you do something like this pls dm me so i can get in on the loot
very nice @keenin that's something to be quite excited about
ur gonna buy a model s with your winnings yeah?
lol yeah legit had me tearing up as a kid (the movie)
If I understand this whole GME situation correctly, doesn't this only work if retail investors don't exit? At least for the time being. If too many people try to make money off of this then it fails because the "squeeze" stops, right?
Easy for me to say, I didn't actually put money in. I've just been following along. If I did put money in, I would probably try to at least sell enough shares to break even.
Yeah, if too many people get greedy then the whole thing falls apart. It's all artificial value anyway.
Vanguard and Blackrock are the top share holders currently. i.e. two large hedge funds who would benefit by a short squeeze
The key piece of the puzzle is the short sellers. It was fun watching them panic
Yeah, that's the important part. Once the short sellers are "all the way fucked" then everyone can just bail I guess. However isn't it tricky because there aren't enough shares for them to cover their short contract because some of it was artificial volume or something? So they are forced to wait until shares become available? Isn't that why everyone is still in a holding pattern?
I think you explained it perfectly. So, folks can slowly sell so the shorts to allow them to cover their naked short positions, which will keep the price high, even while selling some (this is speculation on my part).
Exactly, and the short sellers have to buy in such a high quantity that the peak of the price should last awhile.
People use a metric of Days to Cover (which is the amount of shares needed to be bought by the short seller/AVG # of shares traded per day) to see how long the price will be at it's peak.
I thought Fidelity was the top GME shareholder. Something like 10m shares
lol New York Teach State Teachers Retirement Systems make out like a bandit this month from GME
send a screen cap of this advanced usage i'm too lazy
Can someone explain this video to me? How is his account value dropping by soooo much? Idk what puts are really but around the 17 second mark his options values go from $57k to -$2.6k
https://youtu.be/d80ahvRSV8E
I haven't watched the video yet, but a Put gives you the option to sell a stock at a certain price. So, if amzn stock is 3k today and I think it will go down. I would buy a Put for a certain date in the future at a certain price (e.g. 2k on 1/1/2022). So, this gives me the option to sell a share of amzn on 1/1/2022 for 2k. So, I make money if the price is below 2k on 1/1/2020. A Call is the opposite, where you have the option to buy a stock for a price on a specific date. You use Calls when you think the price is going to go up.
That's scary to me unless he has the money somewhere else to cover any loses
I am going to apply to vanguard to enable my account to buy puts and calls. Just to test it out.
You need to apply? It's not just an available feature?
Interesting. From r/wsb I got the impression anyone could do it no questions asked
I mean... just so many poor choices... surely if there was an application process these people would be rejected
It probably would have prevented that kid from committing suicide when he thought he had lost a ton of money on Robinhood
"kid" probably made him sound younger than 20. In my memory he was more like 16
@spkaplan you must post all of your options contracts for us to follow
Deal. I don't know yet what options I will buy. Needs to be something I have pretty high conviction in. Time for some brainstorming
Ideas:
- Long puts on uber. With a 100b valuation, I feel the market has yet to price in the risk of tesla solving and scaling fsd.
- Long calls (leaps) on ARKG or tsla (just further reinforcing long positions I already have)
- No other ideas yet…
yeah. Its the only thing I have done enough research on to feel confident avbout
I'm reading trying to understand calls and puts. Calls are easier for me to get. Puts can get messy for me. In your ideas @spkaplan:
Long puts on uber. With a 100b valuation, I feel the market has yet to price in the risk of tesla solving and scaling fsd.
How does this work exactly from your position? Would you have to own Uber to buy a put on it? Even typing this I'm getting more confused. A put is like "for some upfront premium, I can buy the right to sell you my UBER shares at price $X if UBER dips below $X before the expiration date"... right? I feel like I'm missing something.
I haven’t done it yet, so I could still be wrong about how it works. Hense why I want to try out some puts and calls with a small amount of money. With that said, your description:
A put is like “for some upfront premium, I can buy the right to sell you my UBER shares at price $X if UBER dips below $X before the expiration date”... right? I feel like I’m missing something.matches my understanding.
Regarding your question about whether you need to own the stock… I found this on nerd wallet: Investors don't have to own the underlying stock to buy or sell a put.
Oh yeah a put gives you the right to sell not the obligation to sell
Right right. So in theory you could just buy a put pay the premium and do nothing with it ever. Stupid but theoretically possible I suppose
Maybe the move then is to buy a put without owning any shares, but if the asset dips and trades below the strike price you can buy up shares at the trading price (which is below the strike price) and then exercise your option to sell at the strike price (above market price) for the intrinsic value it has once ITM
Or wait maybe you don't even need to buy the shares. Once your put option is ITM, the contract itself has a value of (strike price - market price) ** 100 . Someone else who is holding actual shares could buy that from you maybe so they can sell their shares at the strike price instead of the market price
Ahhh yeah, I think I read that too. I think selling the contract itself it an easier route to go
More helpful docs that helped me understand.
@andelink What you described above is exactly how puts are supposed to be used. You don't want to buy the shares until the market price dips below your strike price. That's how the money is made. You "lose" the bet if you place a put option and the market price never decreases below your strike price. At that point, you have paid the premium for the contract but choose not to exercise your option.
I'm curious to learn more about the option premium/fee. How much does it cost you to make this bet? I'm assuming it is some calculation based on the stock's projected future value and the amount of shares involved. Does the fee vary by brokerage?
From what I understand the fee is very dynamic. The fee is set by what is referred to as the Market Maker. I'm sure there are complicated proprietary algorithms to decide what price they are will to sell the options contracts at.
The investopedia guy was saying to think about it like insurance for your stock investment. You own some shares whose value you want to insure so you pay a premium and if the stock dips below the strike price you can sell your shares at the strike price which is in theory above the market price when you exercise. I feel like that is not the most helpful analogy if that’s not how puts are most frequently used. Also why not just use a stop loss in that same scenario instead of paying some premium for a put?
I also wonder about how the premium is set
Yeah I have also heard about it being as a form of insurance, and I totally agree with the stop loss argument. I feel like puts are more often use as a bet against a stock rather than a form of insurance.
I'm going back and trying to understand the video now and I don't really get it. It looks like the guy has purchases put options at three decreasing values but then Apple's price increases before decreasing rapidly. What is going on in the video and how did he lose 50k with options. Can't he just opt not to exercise them?
@spkaplan maybe if you use the puts-insurance, you can just sell the contract once it’s ITM, not your shares. Because the intrinsic value is the delta between the strike price and the market price. That way you can recoup the lost value but keep your equity. And that’s what the premium is for
@brandon lol yeah I couldn’t follow either and it was so drastic the losses
I can't follow the video either haha. I think you might be into something @andelink 👉
u/ControlTheNarrative is the guy in the video I’m hoping I can find an explanation somewhere:
https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l84ner/for_those_who_have_been_around_for_a_while_what/glakqzs/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
This explained margin investing to me:
https://investor.vanguard.com/investing/online-trading/buying-on-margin
This explained margin calls:
https://investor.vanguard.com/investing/online-trading/margin-call
For those watching/buying GME, this post and the graphic it contains seems like an important data point to consider. https://www.reddit.com/r/investing/comments/la3bft/emotional_involvement_has_never_been_this_high/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Yeah... late last night I decided against buying this morning because the volatility is too much for me
Yeah, I backed out of even just buying one share to "be a part of it" because it's just too short term for me and there are a lot of games being played that I don't understand.
Crypto is extremely volatile too but at least in that situation I know it's a long ride/movement and is ultimately (hopefully) trending upward as an emerging technology. This on the other hand, I'm pretty confident this is going to be over in days/weeks and I'm positive that it's going to end at zero or close to it.
Fun week to wake up and watch the market and reddit though! Lots of drama going on! 😁
Whoa, Visa is making moves on crypto. That's a pretty big sign of more mass adoption. We'll see how it plays out. https://www.forbes.com/sites/billybambrough/2021/02/03/visa-reveals-bitcoin-and-crypto-banking-roadmap-amid-race-to-reach-network-of-70-million/
Coinbase is what I use and it only supports a couple big name coins. Binance US and Kraken are also very popular and secure US brokerages. Binance has the most alt coins but that requires a lot more research and dedication. Bitcoin is where you would want to start.
Whether you should buy it or not is up to you. It's going to fluctuate a LOT so you have to be willing to accept that. You just have to decide if you think it's going to be an adopted technology in the future.
dw I trade volatility not direction @keenin knows what I’m about
@keenin ty squeeze guru, what’s the sitch with BTC?
I have $5.56 in my settlement fund. What do I buy?
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/08/tesla-buys-1point5-billion-in-bitcoin.html
Crazy world. I watch a lot of videos from the youtuber who suggested this idea to Elon. I wasn’t sure one way of the other whether Tesla was going to do it or not
Does anyone else get RSU’s form your employer via ETrade? The 1099B ETrade sent me seems messed up, so wanted to cross check, if possible.
Nvm, turns out RSUs are just a little tricky to report on your taxes…figured it out with help from:
Weird, I feel like w2 always comes through quickly. Why did it need a revision? Just curious, since Ive never had a need for that
w2 version 1: income 100k, taxes paid 200k….yes IRS you owe me ~180k…hand it over
Do you know how/why your withholding throughout the year was so much higher than needed?
For me at least there are only a few places where withholdings can get out of whack:
- work payroll taxes (automatic, withholding configured by you)
- work rsu vesting taxes (automatic but never enough because the withholding is configured by employer + brokerage)
- personal investment capital gain taxes (not automatic, need to do your own calculations on tax due and make tax payments on your own)
So those are the only places that influence my taxes due or withheld
But you are a multi-home owner and landlord and married filing jointly your situation is more complex than mine
yeah I think mortgage interest tax deduction gets us above the standard deduction threshold. Besides that, I think salesforce is withholding too much. Personal cap gains and rsus looked in line to me
I think that should be configurable by you. At least I think it's somewhat straightforward for me to change my withholding at Lyft
Eh, it seems more like a fluff piece in all honesty. No difficult questions. And then Vlad admits he pretty much fucked the trade up.
ESPP is usually great financially. What are your thoughts about it?
At Lyft at least, it’s guaranteed >15% return for an ESPP window. At the start of the period, you enroll in payroll contributions to purchase ESPP shares. You set it to be some % of your paycheck. And then at the end of the period (Lyft does six months), the money you’ve been contributing each paycheck is used to buy shares at some price. The price is min(price at start, price at end) ** 0.85. Worst case scenario the share price has declined and the end price is less than the start price, you still purchase the shares at a 15% discount and then upon settling into your account you immediately sell them at market price for a quick 15% gain. Best case scenario is it climbs significantly from start to end and so you get all the gains by purchasing the shares at 15% off the start price and then selling them at the end price.
At least that’s how it works at Lyft. My understanding is that this is somewhat typical at companies that offer ESPP. Does that sound similar to your program?
https://soundstack.slack.com/archives/C7Z30DQBW/p1605573217001100
From my research/experience, the answer is always YES (given that you don't need the cash in the short term). It's stock with a discount.
another noob question but I have a good chunk of my shares vested. someone mentioned you cash out immediately. do you wait for all to vest or just each time? lol sorry i am bad at these things and internet is overwhelming
For ESPP you want to cash out or sell all the shares as they are vested. This is because the gains are immediate and almost guaranteed.
For RSUs I think general advice is to sell all at vest and diversify. The thinking is if you had this much cash on hand to invest, would you invest it all in your company stock? If not, then sell
Yeah, I would sell and reinvest in a diversified holding unless you really believe in the future of your company that many dollars worth 😁
Agreed.
We live in strange times tho. Certain companies fuckin boom and it can be rewarding to hold. I held onto most of my Amazon stock as it went from ~$600 —> $2000+ and I made a lot more money than I would have if I sold all on vest. That being said I had much anxiety in the later years as I would “lose” so much money on big red days. Mostly held because I had no idea what I was doing. Now I sell, though I still am tempted to hold onto some Lyft cause once we hit profitability later this year it will 📈
yeah I am stuck if I should sell or not because obviously expedia is highly impacted by travel and 🤞 we are going to be out of covid within the year
i'd be be stuck thinking about it too. it stresses me out tbh.
- if you hold, be mindful of trading windows. if your price drops but if it's not an open trading window, you can't sell. you will ride the lows and/or highs until the next trading windows opens and you can sell
- do you have other upcoming vests this year? do you have a large portion of your future compensation tied up in future RSUs? if so, you already very exposed to the stock and selling your vest now will reduce your exposure allowing you to diversify so if things don't climb you will be okay
i wish I had a magic 8 ball to just tell me how to manage these things.
I guess my current asset allocation is so worrisome that Vanguard felt compelled to send me this email
I rebalanced recently to shift a lot more into US growth stocks
tbh it's probably >95% and must have triggered some alerts on their end
which tbh that is pretty awesome of them to have in place for their customers
Actually, now I think I might remember having received this email too haha! Yeah, my allocation is skewed heavily as well
I bought ARKK, ARKF, and ARKQ on Feb 8 😢 do I hold or get out now and return to my proven strategy of grandpa etfs
As long as you believe the stocks in those ETFs will go up in the long term then you have nothing to worry about 🙂
My short term projection for ARK etfs: stocks will go up and down 🙂
My long term expectation for ARK etfs: They will outperform the sp500 by a long shot.
lol my 1-year lyft grant vested yesterday so i was planning to start really increasing the volume and frequency of my dca-ing into the market beginning today
usual disclaimer, we never know what is going to happen in the future…blah blah blah… with that said, I guess it still depends what your allocation looks like? What percentage vtsax vs ark funds vs ??? do you currently have?
i'm like 66% vtsax, 5% INTL markets, and the rest divided between VTI (legacy) / ARKF / ARKQ / ARKK and ... Schwab US Broad Market ETF (legacy from Wealthfront that I have not sold yet). All these US holdings overlap, not sure why I still have so many of these.
But the bummer about mutual funds like vtsax though is that you can only buy at market-close with that closing price. So I'll probably buy some vti (etf version of vtsax) today while it's down
I guess the only reason to not sell is taxes, unless they are in your ira or 401k, otherwise having it in 1 place will probably be nice 🙂
It is hard to give advice to others, b/c everyone’s situation and goals are different. Personally, for the past 9-12 months I have shifted away from vtsax-like funds towards ark/tesla (~80%). I figure since I am earlier in my life this is the time to invest in things that are more volatile. That doesn’t mean I am investing in just anything…still only stocks that I have a high conviction about. Over time I will likely start putting a higher percentage back into vtsax-like investments.
Nice man if you can stomach the volatility good for you. I have learned I cannot. It distracts me from my actual life I'm living if my finances are a roller coaster
And yeah taxes are why I haven't sold a good portion of them. It will be more optimal for me to sell next year
Bummer about the taxes. Then maybe just don’t sell? unless you plan to buy something different
well wait are you talking about the lyft shares i vested or my other legacy holdings?
i sold all my vest. i am not gonna sell any of my holdings at the moment unless they have unrealized losses. i will tlh them into other winners
yeah, i was referring to your legacy holdings. I personally would sell your vest so you aren’t too concentrated…at least thats what I do
totally. between my upcoming vests and espp i want to exit any $lyft positions of mine asap
There is no reason not to, since there is no cap gains tax to pay, unless you sell after holding for a while
Right, unless you think the share price will 🚀 like i think $lyft will once we beat our profitability targets later this year
or if your amzn rsus were granted at $600 😁
For sure. Since the money used to buy the RSUs is post-tax, holding RSUs post-vest is the same as deciding to buy. So, I think of it like, if I am to hold RSUs post-vest I need to have the same level of conviction in the company if I were deciding whether to buy stock in that company. Sounds like you have conviction, so sounds like a hold!
I my case, I don’t have enough conviction in Salesforce’s growth (just due to a lack of research on my side) to hold RSUs post-vest.
I don't have enough conviction to hold any individual stock yet - even Lyft when I think we will 📈
Maybe after hitting >$1M in the market will I be willing to invest significantly in individual company stocks
But Salesforce bought Slack! And is committing to remote work full-time!
Do you know if Salesforce has any big plans for the Slack acquisition?
Have you thought about allowing yourself a contained percentage (1%, 5%) to experiment with? That way, you know if all fails, you only lose a small percentage of your portfolio?
Salesforce is making everyone use slack internally…thank god!! my org has used it for a long time, but i hate having to go outside of slack to reachout to other teams.
My guess is there main goal is to sell it alongside Salesforce. It makes their package of software more appealing to customers. I don’t know if they have specific integration plans…will be interesting to find out
For example, maybe hold a little bit of your Lyft RSUs post-vest? contained losses, and then you won’t miss out if it does 🚀
lol thank god indeed for slack. i love it. it's also a bit gamified i get dopamine hits with every emoji. what was salesforce using before slack?
I have and I've tried. I usually end up looking at the price of things too much when I've tried. If I committed to not looking once I bought it like I do with all my normal holdings, it would be doable for me. One day I will. I must.
Internally: Salesforce uses slack, google & Chatter (their terrible inhouse message threads), and maybe more internally. It is hard to find where to reach various teams.
Sales: I don’t think salesforce has had a true messaging product as part of their offerings before this. Again, Chatter is kind of messaging, but more like message boards. It sucks.
Amazon's internal messaging tool (the publicly available AWS offering Chime) also sucked. It was just brand new and underdeveloped when rolled out by AWS. And then all internal Amazonians were forced to use it. Amazon was the biggest customer by far of Amazon Chime (by AWS) lol.
But it was loads better than its predecessor... Lync aka Skype for Business. That was the worst. Although still doesn't sound as bad as Chatter from your description 😆
Now Amazon allows Slack use internally so it sounds like your situation where some teams use Slack and some teams use Chime. Such a pain. How can one choose anything other than Slack when Slack is an option ???
Got my comp statement for the next year today and for some reason got an extra $60k 🙌🙌🙌🙌 I was not promoted
$5k base salary plus $55k equity vesting over the next four quarters
Yeah dude they are exciting I’m excited for you!
This is my first ratings and refreshers experience. Amazon doesn’t have that (technically they have ratings but your manager isn’t supposed to tell you).
At Lyft, your role+level has an annual equity target and each rating (NI, MM, ME, EE, SE) has a multiplier applied when determining the refreshers you get. I got EE so there was an increased multiplier but I was already above my equity target so I’m not really sure why I got anything more but I’ll fuckin take it.
At Amazon it’s like “good job you’re already making way more than your target comp because of increased stock price and you’re at the max base salary so here’s five RSUs for the next next four years.”
So this is a new awesome concept for me. How’s it work at Salesforce? Similar?
I am glad Lyft is treating you better than amazon :)
I'm not sure how it works at Salesforce yet. This is the first performance review for which I have been here at least a year. I am curious to find out!
They haven’t told you ahead of time? When is it?
Well regardless, I hope it goes well for you! 🤞
I said it now there is accountability I must do it
What happened? Were you not witholding enough from your pay check or is it due to trading? Now I'm scared..
Lyft+Schwab only withhold 22% on my rsu vests which is not enough
But also I remembered today I need to adjust my ESPP cost basis because currently I’m getting double taxes on those. Fixing that should lower it a bit
Did you file with TurboTax? When I'm reporting income that kind of information regarding ESPP isn't configured automatically? I usually feel like I can just file all of the docs provided by banks, employers, and brokerages and TurboTax does the rest. I think this tax season might be my most complicated yet though.
Lyft reports the value of the discount of my ESPP purchases (the 15% discount) in my W2 as income. Brokerages are required to report the unadjusted cost basis to the IRS, which includes the 15% discount. So if I don't adjust my cost basis, I'll pay double tax on that 15% discount (once via W2 reporting and once via Schwab reporting).
All brokerages must report the unadjusted cost basis of covered sales of securities. I don't know if all employers report the value of their ESPP discount as income on W2s, but Lyft does. On my W2, this shows up as ESPPD in box 14. Does MSFT do something similar or no?
It shows up as DQDIS but apparently that refers to the same thing for Microsoft. So, how do you manually correct it then? Seems like it would be a common pitfall for people who don't know what they're doing. Although I'm sure the IRS eventually returns the money to people?
In TurboTax when importing your forms from your ESPP brokerage on the 1099-B page, there should be an option for "The cost basis is incorrect or missing on my 1099-B" - check that box.
Then you can enter your adjusted cost basis if you are comfortable doing that (it should should just be # shares ** box 4 on your 3922 form; box 4 is FMV per share on exercise date). If you do this, you should be done.
If you don't want to do the calc above and enter it in manually, you should be able to checkbox "I can't find it and need help." From there TurboTax should walk you through the rest. It should ask you what your ESPP discount is (15% for Lyft) and then ask you to input information from your form 3922. It should then calculate the correct cost basis for you.
My ESPP brokerage is Charles Schwab. My 3922 form was found under the Equity Award Center account
This whole situation only applies if you sold your ESPP. If you are holding onto it, this does not apply
Suppose you have much cash money on hand. What do you do? Buy buy buy? Wait with it doing nothing?
Buy. I only keep cash for the following:
- House down payments
- rainy day fund
- monthly bills
If you are investing for the long term, any good investment will appreciate more than cash
Right, I should have said VTSAX instead of sp500. I like whole market better
Wonder what’s the purpose of owning sp500 and VTSAX
Yeah SPY has lower historical returns and higher expense ratio. Some diversification is always good but idk about these two together how much is to gain
lmao why would anyone living here on earth get one of those?
Exactly, who wouldn’t want a mars truck on earth? The real secret is that you can, for the price of 100$ (refundable), lock in FSD for the current price of 10k. And when it is finally your time to take delivery (i.e. when they get to your name on the list), you have the option to say no and get your 100$ back…OR if they cracked FSD and it is then worth 50k, 200k, whatever, you get it for 10k… It is a free call option on the future price of FSD.
Well, valid for anything, but cybertruck is in a unique situation where you can preorder if, but since they aren’t making them yet, you get to wait until they are close to make your truck to decide if you want to cancel your preorder and get your 100$ back
for example, if you order a model 3 today, you have to decide in a few weeks/months if you want to take delivery or not
If had my own place with tesla charging port or whatever I would buy a tesla today
they will start delivering trucks at the end of 2021 /beginning of 2022, and there are hundreds of thousand or millions of preorders, so it will take years before they get to your name on the list
Idk if I’d ever order a truck but I will think more about the fsd play and if I can turn around and sell that for the return i might consider it
sell or put it into the robotaxi fleet and make $$$, either way there is only upside
Okay need honest feedback/advice. I am not as good at figuring out how to diversity my portfolio so was going to use to help me as I do initial set up. Is this a totally bad idea?? Pricing seems straight forward BUT i remember a long long time ago @spkaplan and I watched Last Week Tonight and it basically said "watch out for hidden fees" from services of some of these companies. (pricing link here )
[$0, $10k): free
[$10k, %50k): $3/mo = $36/year
[$50k, ∞): 0.35%/year (for $50k... $175/year = $14.58/mo)
I don't know really anything about the service, but seems kinda pricey to me.
If it will give you peace of mind and keep you investing consistently, then that is valuable. I hate making decisions about where and how to invest my money. It’s a stressor in my life I’d rather not deal with, so I totally get it. I choose not to use a service like this because (i) the fees are generally higher than I deem acceptable, and (ii) I can achieve the same results with a simple 3-fund strategy. If I keep my investing simple and straightforward I can avoid the stress and live my life without thinking too much about it
I agree with Kyle. Not investing (i.e. keeping everything in cash) is very costly, so .35% to keep you investing regularly is well worth it.
We’re in correction territory 📉
(Except Lyft lmao)
i think people are moving out of the tech/growth stocks into value stock and treasuries because of the feds inflationary outlook and rates increasing
I wish, but I feel like I'm at my max allocation for tsla at the moment 😢
I'm happy they are. That short term thinking will benefit long term investors like us
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000156459021012981/tsla-8k_20210315.htm
Tesla 8-K:
Effective as of March 15, 2021, the titles of Elon Musk and Zach Kirkhorn have changed to Technoking of Tesla and Master of Coin, respectively. Elon and Zach will also maintain their respective positions as Chief Executive Officer and Chief Financial Officer.
You seen the TOS for Starlink?
For Services provided on Mars, or in transit to Mars via Starship or other colonization spacecraft, the parties recognize Mars as a free planet and that no Earth-based government has authority or sovereignty over Martian activities. Accordingly, Disputes will be settled through self-governing principles, established in good faith, at the time of Martian settlement.
yikes https://finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/san-diego-woman-sentenced-nearly-231623779.html
technically it was made for the host of Tech Meme Ride Home
Anybody wanna gimme a rundown on what I should know about crypto? If nobody does, can somebody at least tell me the difference between a wallet and an exchange when it comes to acquiring cryptocurrencies? I understand that you keep your various currencies in wallets, but why can I buy currencies from a wallet? What is the best course of action if I wanted to make some low stake (~$100) purchases into a couple different currencies?
First Google search:
A Bitcoin wallet is basically a software program in which you store Bitcoin. An exchange lets you convert "real money" like US dollars to Bitcoin. Exchanges also provide a wallet—but you don't necessarily have full control of that wallet.
I didn't want a google search, I wanted a personal connection 😠 and that explains the opposite of my question lol looking up ether, it said I can buy through a wallet
Interesting, I think most coins are only able to be bought with USD from exchanges.
Wallets are used to send coins from one wallet to another, exchanges are for converting coins to currency or other coins.
Yes, a wallet is used for storing your funds after you purchase them. If you keep the funds in the exchange, they are just managing the wallet address for you behind the scenes. This is generally frowned upon because you don't control over the wallet address and pass phrases that give you access to the coins.
Coinbase is a great exchange to start with because it's easy to use and all of the coins they offer there are relatively established. It's also trustworthy and US based. I can give you some other recommendations if you want but if you are looking for a place to start, that's where I would point you.
Dang wish I followed this thread more. I just bought my first crypto! ETH on Coinbase!
I have a couple questions:
- Is taxation generally the same as other securities e.g. stonks?
- I want to buy Safemoon, available on Bitmart. I'm not understanding how to fund my Bitmart account. It seems I have to buy some USD asset on Coinbase and then send it to my Bitmart account to buy Safemoon there? What is this about? How do I do that? Y'all have experience with this sort of rigamarole?
- It seems that I collect interest by keeping my shares in the exchange e.g. Coinbase/Bitmart instead of moving them to my own wallet. But @brandon you mention that keeping them in the exchange is frowned upon? The interest sounds nice...
Also, I didn't realize ETH2 was literally a different crypto. It says I can't buy it in my region. How can I get on that ETH2 gravy train?
I just joined the waitlist to stake my ETH for ETH2
Yeah, I think it's taxed similar to other assets but I've never paid any taxes because I haven't sold any coins for fiat or exchanged one coin for another. Those are the taxable events.
Exchanging one coin for another is what it sounds like you need to do for Bitmart. There are certain exchanges that only deal in coins, not fiat currencies.
Yeah, join the waitlist. I got added after about a week of waiting. Coinbase is only offering that interest during the ETH2 staking time though. They don't offer interest for most coins most of the time.
I watched this hbo documentary that got me interested
Do you know how to make money with art? I am genuinely asking, because I know nothing about art
Is there an equivalent to an index or do you need to know what specific pieces to buy?
That historically only the rich have exposure to. Masterworks allows for partial/fractional ownership of art pieces. I'm familiar with the household contemporary artists and their work can go for millions and it just goes up and up and up
Just another way to diversify. And I thought it'd be cool to own
Good to know! Let me know how the interview goes. I wonder what they will ask you
Is there an equivalent to an index or do you need to know what specific pieces to buy?You need to pick individual pieces to buy
Yes I will for sure let you know how it goes! I'm super curious about what they are hoping to discuss and how I will pass/fail
I'll be waiting...my laptop died, so my ability to work today is veryyy limited
It's tricky, as it is a non-productive asset. The prices will go up with inflation and most likely as less and less people have a lot of money the supply and demand for art could go either way 🤷♂️
I bought some artwork for one million
Two years later, that shit worth two million
Few years later, that shit worth eight million
I can't wait to give this shit to my children
Anyone want an invite? You can skip the waitlist I guess with my referral
There were technical problems the whole time that made it unbearable. His signal kept cutting in and out much of the time I couldn't hear him. Multiple call backs. So that made it way harder than it should have been and distracted from the discussion.
All that aside, it was fine. I was unprepared so I didn't have much to contribute, not a lot of questions because I hadn't done my research yet. He wanted to know about my existing portfolio, how I heard about them and why I'm interested in it. Honestly I think this was more of a sales call in that they are trying to secure investors who are actually going to put money down. At that point I wanted to just for the hell of it so I was saying from the beginning I'd invest ASAP. He was trying to get me to diversify into multiple different pieces but I resisted doing that and just purchased one to become a member and now I can do the rest async on my own anytime
I wish I had done more reading of their website, offerings, business model etc just more research so I could actually contribute meaningfully to the conversation and pick his brain, but oh well
Not sure. They just spike the week of Juneteenth LOL
Just moved 100% of my assets into $UONE I need this to play off so I can quit work tomorrow
Hm... who would have thought buying at the 52 week high would be a bad idea? 🤔
Do any of you know anything about blockchain analytics or anyone doing anything interesting with blockchain data? Please share all you know I'd like to learn. Someone just reached out to me about starting a little something something but I'm not super familiar with the space. Basically, what's currently out there was described as basic and uninteresting and that there is opportunity for much more to blow them out of the water. Three companies mentioned:
TIA
oh yea it is your name hahaha i didn't realize that when i typed it
This question popped into my head and wanted to run it by ya'll...
Is there a number at which point you will stop contributing to your 401k/IRA? Motivation: When you turn 59.5 (when you can start withdrawing from your 401k/IRA penalty-free), there is *presumably* only so much money you probably need/want to have from 59.5+ onward, and any extra has diminishing returns of value to you. Also, take into consideration that your 401k/IRA funds have a few decades to grow and compound even if you stop contributions.
Hm... that is a very good question. I haven't even begun to look at the math or withdrawal rate for once I retire (also, expecting that we will have side investments to take into account). Sounds like a good exercise to do though.
I've thought about that but don't think I'm close enough to consider it either. The main reason you may want to begin deprioritizing 401k contributions is because they have a required annual withdrawal attached to them, don't they? So it's better to have the investments that you may have around until you die outside of your 401k so you aren't forced to liquidate unnecessarily.
Or spend that money you are going to have around until you die instead of putting it in the 401k. Up to you! 😆
for some reason once I was over my 401-k contribution I thought it was still attempting to put money in but expedia just refunds me each pay cycle. wasn't super intuitive what happens
Anyone setup a mega backdoor roth? Just learned about this from a coworker.
I had the opportunity for the first time in 2020, but was lazy and didn't do it. Then near the end of 2020 they announced Mega Backdoor Roth is being eliminated for high income earners. So it's gone forever now missed my chance
Not gone yet. I think 2023? I'm just being dramatic
Ah gotcha. I mean, doing it for even 1 year seems worth it. 30k, or whatever the limit is, is insane
I am still learning though, so correct me if Im gettin anything wrong 🙂
Nah you're 100% correct. That $30k will compound for decades tax free. I just need to figure out the details on how to do it
I remember hearing there was some bs with needing to call fidelity and I just put it off. This conversation is a good reminder though that it's important to do
They're minimal
you need to call them tho and set up automatic in plan conversion, a 1-time thing.
5:06
so set the contributions in the tool, then call. might be on hold for 30 mins but whatever.
so just go to netbenefits.com, go to your 401k contribution, and set the after-tax to nonzero (I also did bonus), and then you call fidelity and set up automatic inplan conversion and they'll take care of it for you
5:00
and they keep track of that money separately in case you need to treat it differently than your normal 401k
That's for the After-tax 401k --> Roth 401k, not the After-tax 401k --> Roth IRA, right?
im Not sure about that yet... I figure i will ask fidelity what options are there for where the $ goes
I have fidelity and didn't even need to call. There is a check box when you are setting up your witholding percentage that says "daily in plan Roth conversion" or something like that. I did it for a while but haven't had a chance to turn it back on with other money stuffs taking priority. Definitely worth taking advantage of before the opportunity ends if you can though!
as long as it gets into a roth something, i don't care too much probably. I guess I can always move it around later
That's awesome! Do you have to click to convert on a regular basis, or is it 1time thing?
Oh, right. Kyle has corrected me on this before. I don't think I was transferring to an IRA. I need to brush up on the details again though.
I have a calculator provided by Microsoft I could share. I think it helped me calculate how to set up the percentages.
did they create a roth 401k for you? or where did the converted $ go/end up?
Can you send a screenshot of the checkbox? Im not seeing it, and thinking we might have different UIs 😞
I just saw this
Automated Roth In-Plan Conversion: Your plan has a feature that gives you the ability to convert your after-tax contributions to Roth 401(k). To enroll call 800-603-4015.
I am putting all my money into this until it is maxed! I can't believe I didn' tknow about this before 😞
Interesting. Maybe it's enabled by default for me somehow. I'll grab a screenshot next time I'm on and share.
sorry late to the game - I need to check if I still have the time to set this up
It should be configurable at any time (similar to adjusting your contribution rate) so you shouldn't have missed any window of opportunity. Although, the mega backdoor in general is going away soonish as Kyle mentioned.
Im glad I converted my trad IRA to a roth in 2021, but man did that complicate doing my taxes! 😓 All future years, I will convert to roth as soon as I contribute to my trad ira.
Yep immediate conversion is definitely the move. I've usually had to wait like a day or two before I've been allowed to convert though
How long did you have money in trad before converting to roth?
Ohhh so was this a pro-rata rule situation for you? Where those previous trad contributions were deducted each year when filing your taxes (ie pre-tax)?
4-5 years is a long time to grow. So were your prior year tax deductions maybe valued less than the capital gains you had to pay now when converting to a Roth? Does your tax rate then vs now change the amount of taxes you owe?
Not sure about pro-rata...gotta read up on that. All of my contributions were post-tax. So when I do the backdoor roth, I just need to pay taxes on the cap gains, but not the original conributions.
I might be mixing up language, been a while since I studied up on this, but yeah I see your situation now 🙂 At least now only easy taxes lie ahead of you since you got it all converted
More likely than not, I am just too tired to understand your question, which is perfectly phrased 😆
Posted using /giphy | GIF by :::Crypto Memes:::
What are you accumulating during this bloodbath?
Unexcitingly, I'm not changing up in response to the bloodbath. Currently building a cash pile, potentially for a rental property sometime this year, if all goes well. I almost wish I wasn't building the cash pile, so I could keep buying stocks. I'm hoping prices stay low for a while.
Your accumulating capital for your rental! That's accumulating something 🙂
I guess not today only. A lot of coins slid 30% past few days. On the stonks side NFLX PTON SHOP took big hits
Ah yeah, I heard about peleton stopping production. Ouch.
The market will really test our diamond hands for a while, until rate increases get figured out.
I mean, it would be terrible to sell now. Absolutely terrible. I would be sick to my stomach
I couldn't agree more. I'm way less likely to sell now than when things are good.
Same. But it's not pleasant to look at. Wish I didn't throw so much into the market over the last few months
I had so much cash and now it's in assets that have lost so much of their value
20/20 hindsight. I wish I had been piling cash the last 6 months and now piling into stocks rather than the other way around.
During times like these, I always try to remember " time in the market is greater than timing the market". Makes me feel better for not trying to time it
1000% that's been my mantra for a long time until last October where I fucking aped into so much crypto it hurts so bad
Stay wise, stay disciplined and ye shall prosper
If you don't mind me asking, are you primarily in indexes and Lyft stock? And which cryptos?
Screw Lyft stock. I sell ASAP never hold.
The biggest holding is VTI/VTSAX. I'll pump that all day. Own some AAPL but minimal.
On the crypto side my biggest holding is BTC, followed by ETH, then some smaller positions in MATIC DOT AVAX CRO LINK SOL and some SAMO for giggles. Have a couple NFTs that have tanked. I have some defi plays that I expect to pay out handsomely.
And then my $10k art investment which I have no clue how it's doing.
I'm similar, VTSAX is my main. Some APPL, Costco, JnJ, big brands of stuff I use + some stocks with dividends.
My little fun penny stock play is SIRC, but :facewithfingercoveringclosed_lips:, don't tell anyone
roughly 10k crypto, nothing crazy
At the rate we're going I'm too will only have $10k in crypto any day now
So true. I’ll watch anything with Larry David though
Edit: not sure why this got sent to the channel, wasn’t intentional
yeah i just wish someone gave me a heads up jeez
I saw the posts at $10 but that shit can fall out from underneath you real quick
Discover Card is doing 5% cash back on both digital wallets (Apple Pay) and Amazon purchases. What a time to be alive
Our first recession as adults. Have/will you be changing any behavior(s), making any preparations, etc...?
We're all grown up 🥲
I'll probably try to cushion the emergency fund a bit more just to be on the safe side, but then I'll just be investing as much as I can after that. So, not really. You?
The same :) Buffing up the emergency fund a bit, and business as usual.
Sorry for the grim content, bookmarking these for myself. Hopefully I remember to read them before I die.
Posted using /giphy | GIF by :::Crypto Memes:::
Boring index funds (total us stock market), and tsla.
My tsla position is large enough, so just add to index funds for a while now
Some crypto that I have had for years, but nothing significant.
and SVB, or course 😉
ESPP reporting details https://soundstack.slack.com/archives/C7Z30DQBW/p1614662147073100?thread_ts=1614537771.065600&channel=C7Z30DQBW&message_ts=1614662147.073100
This is driving me nuts. NY state is trying to tax 100% of my annual 2022 income, despite me living there only 75% of the year. I think I found out why.
Unlike most states, NYS does not trust your employer and you have to show your math from scratch for what portion of your income is owed to NYS. If you don’t include paperwork showing what portion of your income should be allocated to NYS, they assume 100% should go to NYS (that’s why W2 box 16 allocates all of my income to NYS -- it’s required by NYS law). See IT-203-F, Schedule B for allocating RSU income to NYS, which goes on about how RSUs granted to you while living there continue to be taxed event if you no longer live there when they vest.
giant bold text from the instructions for IT-203:
Failure to complete Schedule A of Form IT-203-B (and
Form IT-203-F, if applicable) and submit it with your
return will delay the processing of your return and could
result in penalties and interest being charged.
Finally time to get an Apple Card. Apple launches its savings account with 4.15% interest rate
Apple on Monday launched its Apple Card savings account with a 4.15% annual percentage yield. It requires no minimum deposit or balance, Apple said, and users can set up an account from the Wallet app on their iPhones. Cash rewards earned through the Apple Card (3% back) will automatically be deposited to the savings account. The national average APY on savings accounts is just 0.35%, according to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, so Apple’s 4.15% APY is high in comparison.
The article goes onto compare other high-yield cash accounts.
CIT Bank offers a savings account with a 4.75% APY when customers deposit a minimum balance of $5,000. Marcus by Goldman Sachs has a 3.9% APY with no minimum balance or monthly fees. Capital One’s savings account has no minimum balance, and users can earn a 3.5% APY. Vio Bank offers a savings account with a 4.77% APY with no minimum balance.
Are you asking about my current credit card cash back or my banking interest rates APY?
I currently have the Amazon Prime card and the Discover something card. Something like 1.5-2% IIRC. Discover has quarterly cash back offers you can enroll in that net you a higher % back.
My banking APY is approximately 0%.
I was in Marcus at some rate. For a while I moved all my cash savings around frequently to whomever offered the highest rates. Then the rates came crashing down, and I didn’t like how many extremely long 1099-INTs I had to file due to me moving around so much. So I just stopped
Maybe I have cash somewhere that I’m forgetting about
im surprised your current place isn't raising your rate. You shouldn't have to chase rates, ya know? they should just raise it your rate
I had a BOA savings account for a while. It had a marginally higher rate than the checking account. Still way below 1%. But then I moved all my BOA savings to other high-yield savings accounts, and the BOA scumbags started charging me like $20/mo because my savings account funds dipped below some threshold. Fucking trash. So I closed it.
It would be such a nice surprise if I have cash in some high yield account somewhere
You should definitely have a high yield savings account for the rainy day fund. I've been with Marcus for a couple years and they do a good job of adjusting the rates. My checking account is still just with BECU, but that is just my staging ground before the money gets shipped off to it's permanent home.
That being said, this Apple card is pretty dope. Great savings rate and great reward. So it's a high yield savings account, with a checking card? Usually savings accounts don't have cards and have some sort of limitation on the number of monthly withdrawals.
It does look really good and like everything Apple integrates fabulously with their ecosystem of products.
The card itself is a credit card, and has been available a while now. What’s new is this HYSA exclusively available to Apple Card holders. You don’t have to use/set it up if you don’t want
It’s nice you can configure all your cash back rewards from the card to deposit directly to the HYSA
Does anyone here use CreditKarma?
Edit: I mean use it to check your credit sccore
How does your score there compare to scores you get elsewhere?
CreditKarma is reporting a nearly 100 point difference
Credit Karma considers all lines of credit whereas Discover is only considering your lines of credit with them?
Idk. That’d be more concerning because there’s nothing wrong with my line of credit with Discover. AFAICT there’s nothing wrong with any of my credit. The opaqueness of credit is infuriating
I guess i should be clear. Discover is reporting 83 points lower than CreditKarma
They are probably just using different reporting agencies. CreditKarma should list the separate score from both of the agencies that they partner with. Discover might be generating an average, or using different sources. I think there also could be differences in when they last pulled/cached your score. CreditKarma is a good estimate though in my opinion. I don't know anything about Discover.
Anyone have an HSA and have reimbursed things successfully?
Yes, but I stopped after everything I read recommended to not touch HSA funds, so they can continue to grow tax free.
I was building a receipt scanner to extract all the relevant bits I need, but didn’t know off-hand what exactly is the information I need to keep in order to reimburse later
Apple Shortcut
- Opens the camera app
- User (me) then takes a photo of the receipt
- Shortcut runs background removal to remove non-receipt from the image
- Runs OCR to extract all text from the receipt
- Regex match information on the extracted text, returning a dictionary/json object (e.g. amount: $37.99)
- Builds an HTML table from the key-value pairs, saved as a rich text document.
- Convert the rich text document to a TIFF image.
- Combine the cropped receipt image and the table image into a single image that contains both.
- Saves the combined image to a dedicated iCloud folder.
- Converts the combined image to a PDF, saving it to the iCloud folder.
- Adds the image and PDF iCloud links as kv pairs to the dictionary.
- Saves the data dictionary to the same iCloud folder as a json file.
So I end up with three files
icloud/folder/uuid.tiff
icloud/folder/uuid.pdf
icloud/folder/uuid.json
I’d thinking of maybe also maintaining a csv file or google sheet with the expenses and adding the extracted data to it as a new row.
Right now I’ve only done prescription stuff, extracting:
date
product/service (e.g. medication name)
product/service details (e.g. prescribing doctor, medication manufacturer, quantity etc)
payer (me)
payee (e.g. CVS pharmacy)
payee details (e.g. address, phone number)
insurance details
retail price
out-of-pocket price i.e. price paid
I haven’t actually expensed anything yet, so I’m not really sure what the best storage approach would be. Like is both an image and a PDF necessary?
I mostly just want to stop holding on to so many physical papers/receipts. So saving the text and source receipt somewhere is the important part. I figure once it’s saved in a better machine readable format, I can iterate on it as I go.
Let the funds grow in the market, then make tax-free withdrawals for cash as needed
You're way ahead of me 😄 Im just assuming Ill have enough expenses in the future to use it all haha
I just have bags and bags of receipts I need to organize / do something with. Yes, bags. I don’t have office furniture like filing cabinets or anything lol
Your scanner sounds like it will capture everything youll need in the future, especially if you retain the original image.
That’s what I’m hoping! Then I just need to organize it intelligently to make it usable
Sort of related: Generate invoices from the command line
Maas Lalani makes great CLIs. Always will check out a new project from him
I can't help but feel good when the market goes up, even though I'm still buying and not withdrawing for years lol
Yeah, it feels good seeing the numbers get bigger even though none of it is realized value lol
Damn son $900k TC, $300-400k base for bottom level engineers 🤑
privacy-friendly personal finance planning tool where you can create financial plans that go beyond the standard online retirement calculators, and supports self-hosting.
As always, PL is free to try, with no need to create an account. It does not ask to link your financial accounts, and it has a sandbox mode if you just want to hop in and see how it works.
Looks pretty nice actually. Hopefully will try this out soon but I really need to get back to work.
Show HN: I spent 2 years building a personal finance simulator (projectionlab.com)
Hey everyone! After another year of building as a solo dev on nights and weekends, I’m back with an update on this post: .
TL;DR - ProjectionLab () is a privacy-friendly personal finance planning tool where you can create financial plans that go beyond the standard online retirement calculators. And by popular request, it now supports self-hosting for Lifetime users!
Something I’m grateful for is that our community here on HN is the difference between PL existing and not. There was actually a time early on when I was one day away from halting work on it. I posted here on a whim, and was shocked to receive some really constructive and energizing feedback that went on to power my indie dev journey over the past two and a half years.
As a quick recap, the story started when I dove head-first down the financial independence rabbit hole. I wanted a hands-on and visual way to explore the trade-offs between different life paths. One thing led to another, and I decided to build ProjectionLab.
After last year’s Show HN, I really put my nose to the grindstone, and here are some of the big developments:
- Self-hosting for Lifetime users (spin up your own private deployment, based on Docker Compose, includes support for auth/encryption)
- Cash-flow visualization for each simulated year (sankey charts)
- Tax analytics (detailed breakdowns for projected income, taxes, marginal rates, effective brackets, etc)
- Major redesign of entire app, with landing page and resources now split into separate project
- Filing separately option to improve support for international locations that don’t have joint filing
- Roth Conversions and 72t (SEPP) distribution modeling
- Improvements to US tax estimation (Secure 2.0 updates, rental property tax deductions, Medicare + IRMAA, NIIT, principal residence exclusion, etc)
- Better support for planning as a couple
- More modeling options for cash-flow priorities to support different budgeting philosophies and goals
- Extra liquidity + withdrawal options, ability to fund expenses with specific accounts or route income to specific accounts
- Customization options for Monte Carlo simulations (characterization of success rates and outcome types, option to set random seed, etc)
- And a whole bunch more! ()
The HN community has had a huge role in shaping my overall direction with PL, and I can’t wait to hear what you all think of the updates and where you would like to see things go from here.
As always, PL is free to try, with no need to create an account. It does not ask to link your financial accounts, and it has a sandbox mode if you just want to hop in and see how it works.
not yet i just found it. but hopefully i can get some time tonight to play with it. i spent my morning procrastinating on work and now it’s time to pay up for that
Damn I really gotta interview
https://www.teamblind.com/us/s/frQkA2qV
robinhood
Software Engineer
San Francisco, CA, US • IC6
TC: $585K
- $250K Base
- $285K Equity
- $50K Bonus
Software Engineer
Mountain View, CA, US • L6
TC: $579K
- $235K Base
- $297K Equity
- $47K Bonus
Snowflake
Software Engineer
San Mateo, CA, US • Senior
TC: $639.2K
- $295K Base
- $300K Equity
- $44.2K Bonus
Roblox
Software Engineer
San Mateo, CA, US • IC5
TC: $600K
- $300K Base
- $300K Equity
Rippling
Software Engineer
San Francisco, CA, US • Staff
TC: $592K
- $285K Base
- $250K Equity
- $57K Bonus
- $50K Sign-on
Also have to move down to Cali. So take off 12% for income tax. But still good numbers
What a great problem to have! I would have a tough time deciding as well! Which would you choose? My initial reaction is to lean toward Snowflake and Roblox, but I haven't done any research.
Roblox because I have friends there who have been wanting me to interview there. Snowflake because I’m familiar with the space they are in. They are also both public companies meaning your equity is liquid. Rippling is not public and I don’t really care about workplace management. Google I wouldn’t say no to if it was my only offer but idk I haven’t heard the best things about the internal culture
What does everybody consider the bare minimum for saving/investing? i.e. 6x monthly expenses saved, maxing out 401k + IRA
Out of curiosity on differences, but also to make sure I am not missing something basic 😅
My basics, kinda in order, are: emergency fund, max 401k, max Roth IRA via backdoor conversion, max HSA (if you have one), max 529s for kids (if any), everything that isn't spent goes into brokerage account. The bigger that last one is, the better.
That sounds about right! Emergency fund size is just going to vary based on your risk threshold. I definitely increased mine a bit when all of the layoffs started happening. And even though I know how great HSAs can be, it's not my thing. I don't like using them.
I agree on Brandon's point on the emergency fund size. It's highly variable dependent on your situation. I've increased mine over time as the number of things that depend on my income have increased (mortgage, kids, etc...).
It isn't as painful these days, with high interest rates, to have a pile of cash 😂
Emergency fund size is just going to vary based on your risk threshold.Totally, and I was curious about everybody's thresholds 👀
the number of things that depend on my incomeIs this different than expenses? Shouldn't a function of monthly expenses account for them through the added expenses?
Totally, and I was curious about everybody's thresholds 👀I've got 8ish months worth of expenses in cash. I increased this from 3ish once I had my daughter and again when the layoffs started. There are always very liquid stocks/index assets to sell if needed as well.
Is this different than expenses?I should probably rephrase it as: as the number of dependents increased (pets, kids), the lower risk tolerance I had. Dependents have expenses that you can't easy eliminate, unlike your netflix subscription or car payment 🙂
I can’t figure out how you are supposed to input your assets into this tool? Is it manual?
https://ghostfol.io/
https://github.com/ghostfolio/ghostfolio
Hard to tell from the "features" page. I wouldn't be surprised if it was manual though, given that it's "privacy first" focused.
I'm still using Mint, since I can't bring myself to spend the time to do this stuff manually.
529 plans just got a bit better. Can rollover up to 35k to IRA after 15 years, of funds invested >5 years ago. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/15/529-college-savings-plans-had-a-major-sticking-point-until-now.html?__source=twitter|main
if you never use it it converts to a regular old account
do you need kids to fund a 529
No, you do not need to have children to open and contribute to a 529 college savings plan. While 529 plans are commonly used to save for a child’s future education expenses, the account owner can name themselves as the beneficiary [1][2]. Funds in a 529 plan can be used for qualified education expenses such as tuition, fees, books, and room and board for the beneficiary at eligible higher education institutions [3].
- 529 plans: Not for kids only
- Does It Make Sense to Start a 529 Plan Before Having Children?
- What Is a 529 Plan? - Savingforcollege.com
https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-advances-innovative-direct-file-project-for-2024-tax-season-free-irs-run-pilot-option-projected-to-be-available-for-eligible-taxpayers-in-13-states
Washington is among the 13 states to pilot it, so we are eligible to try it out come tax season
We are truly blessed in this year of our lord Jesus Christ, amen
Yeah, I do. I used to try to figure out the cheapest transaction fee based on the transaction amount, use the platforms tokens for fees to save money, etc, but lately I've just wanted ease of use and stability. Coinbase Pro fees aren't that bad.
No, it's just integrated into the standard coinbase web app now. You can just toggle between the two 🤷♂️ I'm pretty sure the fees are still much better on pro so I don't really understand why you would use the standard one, although I guess it is more beginner friendly.
Oh thats confusing! I just bought on non-pro and thought the fees were high. I'll try to switch to pro. Thank you!
The fee to buy btc on pro is the same i paid on non-pro this morning. So maybe no diff anymore?
Oh well, not a huge deal. I won't be buying often, and will usually sink 5 figures in at a time, so 10's of $ in fees isn't too bad.
I very well might be missing something. I only compared a single data point
Looks like a perctenage. goes down when i decrease the order amount...so nvm on the larger purchases point lol
Yeah, let me know if you find an alternative you're happy with. I'll do the same.
I use Coinbase as well. Convenience is too high
Oh, two things I should add:
- My coinbase-specific email has been leaked, and coinbase never owned up to it. I may have gotten one email awhile ago from them claiming one of their "partners" had some kind of breach. But, in any case, my email address specific to their service now receives a lot of spam. I just got one supposedly from cointracker addressed to that address telling me I need a nutritionist?
- I transfer my crytpo out of coinbase to a hardware wallet asap
I need to do the hardwallet thing someday... any recommendations on hardwallets? I just haven't spent the time researching it yet.
Brandon and I researched together and both landed on Trezor, so we both have their basic one
When we looked into it a year or two ago, there were really only two options, so it was pretty easy to research lol
Yeah, all of my coinbase purchases go onto the Trezor. I was also trying out the new Fidelity Crypto service for a little while, but they never added the ability to send it elsewhere so I stopped using it. I'll have to sell that during the next rally (🤞) or slowly swap it out for purchases on coinbase.
How did you guys arrive at your desired allocation to crypto? Curious on your thought process/reasoning.
I didn't arrive at a % of net worth allocation, I just put in a comfortable amount every week while it was below $20,000. I've paused my buying while it's going up right now, but that's just because I am trying to make up for losses from buying a ton at $60,000 😬
How did you all decide on a bank? I find stuff like this hard to research because there are so many "Top 10 banks in your city!!" articles and I don't really know what to look for. The only "criteria" I can think of is virtual cards, right now I'm just using a third-party to do that. Capital One doesn't seem too bad?
P.S.: right now I'm with BECU and my girlfriend is with Wells Fargo. We are both thinking of switching, but maybe somebody has something nice to say about either of these?
I love Ally. I do almost all my banking with Ally. The only reason I keep my credit union is for the rare need for cashier's checks. Their customer service has been great, solid app, website, high interest rate savings. I'm sure there are other good ones, but Ally has been good to me for 3-5 years.
I use BECU for checking and it acts as my starting point for income ( and like Sam said, it's nice to have a bank with a physical location to go to for certain things). I've never had a problem with them. Savings goes to Marcus by GS because of the high yield. That's been great too.
Avoid Bank of America, which is my bank. Terrible
Terrible software terrible account terms terrible rates
I have too much "emergency" money sitting in my bank account and am looking into CDs. Any good jumping off points? Looking at Investopedia, I could get 5.80% at 18 months or 5.25% at 5 years 🤔
Ally high interest savings is 4.25 right now. They have CDs 12mo @ 5.25, 18mo @ 5.15.
So, do you just recommend getting a decent CD through a bank I'm already using?
I wouldn't say I'm recommending, but it's an option, and is likely more convenient.
I personally would probably go with a CD from a bank I already use, just for simplicity. Only if I was putting in 100k+ and the difference was over 1% (i.e. 1k in interest per year) I might consider another institution.
I haven't even bothered putting my emergency fund in a CD, considering the savings account is giving 4.25. But maybe I should put it in an 18mo at 5.25
Yeah, no problem with keeping your emergency fund in a high yield savings account right now. The rates are pretty good. I recently moved mine over to a CD at the same bank though just for a little extra yield 🤷♂️
@andelink - do you have the link from this message handy? Looking for more info on it
oof. I don’t even know what that link is. Their blur is pretty effective
Wow, I couldn't read that either. Impressive unblurring skills (or memory)!
Potentially! I also need to look more into actually using it
The IRS will conduct a limited-scope pilot during the 2024 tax seasonDoes this mean it won't be available until 2025?
Depends on the scope? Looks like eligibility is defined in the article. Still reading though..
Eligible taxpayers may choose to participate in the pilot next year to file their tax year 2023 federal tax return for free, directly with the IRS.
Yea, skimming during all-hands, so not paying super close attention (to either) lol
Eligibility for the pilot is limited by the types of income, tax credits and deductions that the product can initially support. Taxpayers who fall outside the pilot's eligibility limits will be unable to participate in the pilot in 2024.
Direct File will cover only individual federal tax returns during the pilotWell, guess I'm out..
Yeah, they are just trying to limit the complexity of the first trial run I think.
You can’t use Direct File if your wages are more than $200,000Gross pay on my W2 is $203,000 😢
Just gotta hold until we can sell next Wed cross-finger-intensify
Wow, I just zoomed out. What caused the price to spike like that anyways? Any big news? Or just good quarterly report?
Just a good quarterly earnings I guess.
Note that there was a big error in our initial earnings report, where we misstated growth to be 500bp YoY (5%), when really it was meant to be 50bp (0.5%). See the first paragraph of our report:
Fifth bulleted list, third bullet of release should read: Adjusted EBITDA margin expansion (calculated as a percentage of Gross Bookings) of approximately 50 basis points year-over-year. [instead of Adjusted EBITDA margin expansion (calculated as a percentage of Gross Bookings) of approximately 500 basis points year-over-year.].
So we corrected it right away, but who knows how much of the initial spike was due to the incorrect reporting. The price remained high though even after the correction ¯_(ツ)_/¯
wooooooow, false advertising! That decimal is important lol That makes sense though, explains the big jump.
When will interest rates go back down for mortgages?
I know there is a way to interpret the bond yield curve to deduce the predictions of rates in the future, but I don't know more than that.
i wonder what they’d say if i just asked them when it will go back down. gpt-4 just got updated with training data through the end of 2023, so who knows might be useful
There's probably also sites that just run the predictions/forecast regularly and publish it 🤷
Never thought I’d recoup the loss in value from the last couple years
Wow, yeah that was just about the peak. Enough time in the market almost always helps, especially considering btc institutional acceptance the risk of complete collapse seems very unlikely now
btc institutional acceptanceThere was plenty of that before the crash, IMO. Huge amounts held by financial institutions. But the recent ETF does help bolster it
Like all other assets, I have no idea what drives the price of BTC
btc price, per my understanding, is currently largely driven by the limited supply. the big picture demand is coming from the value of diversification. there is inherent value is spreading out your cash-like assets beyond the dollar.
beyond the dollarfor sure for sure. my 2 btc will be the lifeline for my grandbabies grandbabies after the inevitable collapse of fiat money
Because Dave from Catastrophe says it’s a must have for caring fathers
I bought 2 BTC when it was at $65k last timeYeah, the kool-aid was really sweet on this last bull run. Congrats on holding onto it! Almost there now! 📈
Now the question is will you bitterly dump it for gains when you have the chance 😆 Personally, it sure would be nice to realize some gains. I have a balance on Fidelity that I can't export from the platform so I'm thinking I will sell that at some point during the next bull run and then continue my DCA on other platforms that allow me to transfer to cold storage.
lol yeah bruv i was fucking chugging the kool aid fucking hell drunk off it
ehhh idk i might sell some but i wasn’t planning on selling them before the crash if it went up not really planning to now. still benefit from the diversification
you brandon should be a rich man you’ve continued to dca this whole time
Eh, I have, but I've been much more conservative than you so you still have a larger balance. My net gains are higher though yeah.
I bought like 0.2 back in 2017...i wish I had DCA's ever since then lol. I bought another 1.8ish at end of last year, so im up pretty good on it, but im planning to hold for the long term
For better or for worse i go extreme in thingsWith your w2 income, it's for the best. You always have your income to fall back on, so you can afford to make big "bets"
lol if you go into our workplace settings you can see and configure different replies on certain keywords
I wouldn’t have guessed we were 99 percentile… that is pretty cool
lol if you go into our workplace settings you can see and configure different replies on certain keywordsYou set it up lol
yeah i was poking around our settings for something and then discovered this feature and tried it out lol
I can never remember how to go back to our workplace settings though
https://twitter.com/AdamSinger/status/1762956713638924452?t=jN0sVRuf38NRt_98EG-LPA&s=19
That's still what I use for my highly diversified portion of my investments. The only thing Im aware of to consider is VTI vs VTSAX.
With Mint gone, I am waiting for the next decent personal finance tool. And I figure I might as well go local/secure this next round.
@andelink Would you mind reminding me what software you're currently using for personal finance stuff? I was using Empower, but they can't manage to sync data from my credit union, so im ready to ditch them.
Thanks! Ill check it out, for real this time. it's got a lot of GH stars
I’ve heard good things about Actual as well (top of that list you sent)
maybe seems the best, in that it has net worth as well. However, I can't even get this working. 🙄
hmm i haven’t tried. i’ll try tonight and let you know
thanks. it seems like one of those things that should work, so i must have done something stupid. although, some of their "self hosting" doc is a little ambiguous, so I may have taken a wrong turn in a place or two. i also posted to their discord
lol, nvm, i fkd something up the first time. i wiped everything and started fresh and it worked 🤷
can't even import a csv... I think they are fully focused on a hosted version and self-hostiong isn't getting the attention at the moment and/or is too immature
im confused, b/c it looks nothing like this demo the ceo did a few months ago
Watching these prediction markets for the election is interesting. The one I linked, Polymarket, is the biggest one, with over $1.9B in volume. This is more money than I would have guessed, and this is only one of a few markets people use.
According to this market, Trump has a huge chance of winning vs Harris. This is in contrast to the (extremely) slim lead given to Harris by the most reputable pollsters. The NYT + FiveThirtyEight offer a great polling overview you can play around with to compare, updated with new results in real-time: Election 2024 Polls (non-paywalled link). FiveThirtyEight also offers a cool tool to compare different voting scenarios and their outcomes: What would it take to flip states?
Some comments:
- The only historical analysis I’ve come across states that prediction markets are historically a better indicator than polls, only getting it wrong once
- They were wrong either 2020 or 2016, I can’t recall at the moment.
- Caveat being that historically prediction markets were smaller and more regional (?) than this. These big ones we see today have only come online in the last 8-10 years.
- I assume these big online election markets aren’t dissimilar from certain crypto ape behavior we’ve seen in recent years.
- The comment sections are entertaining to read, at least to me
- I haven’t looked into the specific inputs Polymarket uses to calculate these odds/prices.
- Of course the polls famously underestimated Trump in previous elections.
- ~58% vs ~42% is just such a large gap it becomes suspicious to me.
I’m curious what people think about all this.
I am really tempted to buy some Harris shares, not because I’m convinced she will win, but only because I think the current 41.6% chance/price is way too low, making Harris quite undervalued here. Unfortunately I don’t think it’s comparable to equities or other asset classes. My understanding is that it’s binary: payday upon a win, evaporated value upon a loss. So even if it is undervalued by ~8%, no way for that materialize into profit unless come election day it proves to be undervalued by at least 9.5% i.e. she wins. At least this is how I am thinking about it. I only learned about these markets a few days ago.
Yeah, the difference between the betting markets and polls is interesting and hard to explain.
lol they seem to have markets for everything e.g. “Trump fires campaign manager?” or “Trump gets more black voters?”
I guess their odds are based solely on the supply/demand within the respective market. Summary of their video:
Title: Where do the odds come from?
- Poly Market is the largest prediction market globally, focusing on future event outcomes, including elections.
- The platform provides real-time election forecasts that are utilized by politicians, pundits, and media outlets.
- Market odds reflect the probability of specific candidates winning, such as Trump at 52% and Harris at 48%.
- Odds in Poly Market are determined by supply and demand dynamics among traders.
- Traders react to new information, such as polls and breaking news, causing the odds to fluctuate in real time.
- If traders believe a candidate’s odds are undervalued, they will place bets to capitalize on potential gains.
- The competitive nature of trading leads to an ongoing adjustment of odds based on collective trader beliefs.
- Traders profit only from accurate predictions, incentivizing them to strive for the most accurate odds.
- The live trading environment ensures that forecasts are continuously updated, enhancing their reliability.
- Poly Market is recognized as a premier source for accurate real-time election forecasts due to its dynamic trading system.
Anyone know anything about buying/holding gold? I just realized how illiterate I am on the topic of holding gold as an asset, so am looking to do some research.
Haha yes, yes I do have gold.
The usual advice is to have 5% of your portfolio in precious metals. I usually approach it like anything other investment. Cost average as you accumulate it - just buying gold coins by weight.
I also buy 24k jewelry as I like the idea of being able to enjoy my investment in the present as well :)
Precious metals are not meant as an investment vehicle like stocks though. They are a hedge.
Thanks for sharing! Are all the precious metals you buy in physical form? Where do you buy from? How do you store them?
I buy them from Bellevue Rare Coins. I’m sure Bellingham has a similar shop that sells physical gold/silver coins minted by the US. I only buy US minted for guaranteed quality. Last, I have a sizable safe that I keep everything in.
its bonkers. there must have been a lot of dry powder on the sideline. it seems investors really didnt like either 1) the uncertainty leading up to the election, or 2) the possibility of harris.
Yeah, definitely seems that way. Everyone seems excited about the economy now even though nothing has actually changed that I'm aware of.
Listening to investors and business owners, it seems all about expectations and certainty. Leading up to the election, they don't know which regulatory/tax regime they will be in for the next 4 years. Nov 6th all of a sudden they have much higher certainty, one way or the other, what regulation and taxes will look like.
I'd guess this probably happens with every election, and the larger the difference between the candidates, the higher the uncertainty.
I'm finally getting around to recording all of my medical expenses so I can reimburse myself in the future from my HSA, and I completely underestimated how much of a pain this would be 😩
I didn't look closely at the time, but wow, giving birth is expensive! Thank god for insurance
Yeah I haven’t tried to reimburse yet. Probably smart to at least go through that experience.
I am just recording expenses in a spreadsheet so I can reimburse myself in a few decades, after the $ has grown
I only recently learned there is no time limit on when you can reimburse yourself.
And so if you reimburse for a medical expense you get to withdraw it tax free
"tax free", but not "hassle free". Maintaining a spreadsheet of my medical expenses for several decades has always sounded like a nightmare to me. Can you imagine how it will feel to sit down and go through that process in a few decades?! No thanks! I'll find my gains elsewhere.
Yeah, it wouldn definitely be less painful if I had done it along the way, but going forward I will just add a medical expense one at a time as they come up. But then in a few decades, I can pull all that money out of the HSA all at once, that's the easy part. The spreadsheet is just if you get audited to prove you have the medical expense.
I could even just ditch the past and start with new medical expenses to make it easier. But the birth expenses were 10's of thousands, so too good to leave behind.
But yeah, fair enough to just skip it and pay the taxes upon withdrawl 🙂
I use Coinbase. I've steered clear of Robinhood ever since the GameStop ordeal.
Depending on usage, it's also worth looking at cost efficiency of Coinbase Pro/Premium.
People here use Fidelity as their primary brokerage? Any complaints?
Fidelity is where my work 401k is. I don't have anything else there. No strong feeling one way or the other on it. They made the rollover from Expedia 401k to Salesforce easy, so they get a few points for that.
Same here. Just my 401k and generally don’t spend much time there. I’m shopping around though
For my primary brokerage. Since my 401k is already in Fidelity, maybe move everything else there
I like the idea of consolidating accounts. It's annoying logging into so many different places. Where are your other accounts currently?
Vanguard is my main one. I don’t really want to move. But I just learned about their large investments in fossil fuels and I worry about any company experiencing large losses from being over-indexed in that space, over the coming years
I don’t know how the organization is structured though. If their investment arm suffers, does that impact their retail brokerage business?
Hmm, good question, no clue whether there is a potential impact there. Does Fidelity not have the same exposure to fossil fuels? I would guess (an uneducated guess) they probably behave pretty similarly.
My uneducated gut feeling is fossil fuels will take a long time to go away and there will be time for companies to rotate from fossil fuels to renewable over time. Again, totally uneducated feeling about it. Wdyt?
Hmm you’re right I should double check the % for Fidelity
Yeah no worries. You’re prompting the right questions
Me too. I’ve been finding a number of such sites recently
I'm invested decently in Tesla, so at least I'm hedged with sustainable energy 😅
I can't wait for the abundance of home batteries, solar, evs, etc... to really start replacing our reliance on fossil fuels.
Have you made use of any IRA tax credits? It’s a little harder as a renter but there should be some options for home owners
I bought our car pre-IRA. My income is too high anyway, if I recall correctly.
Yeah I think I plugged mine into the tool and credits basically disappeared
I've installed mini split heat pumps and plan to get tax credits for those
My gas furnace hasnt kicked on this fall, woohoo! I mainly did it for the AC in the summer, but heating with electric vs gas has been a plus. Definitely cheaper.
Nice! It’s great living in a region with a high percentage of renewables in our electricity mix. Makes things so much cheaper
I was comparing to the area of WI my family lives in and we are substantially cheaper and cleaner
Yeah honestly it upsets me how dirty their grid is over there. They have a bunch of contaminated ground water from coal ash. WI has the unique honor of most recognized contaminations by the EPA. Haven’t told my family because they don’t like it when I talk about the environment with them
It would be great if we could get them behind solar and such. Crazy that it is such a politicized topic to use more sustainable energy generation.
Drives me crazy how it’s politicized. Climate change was understood as far back as the 50s, by scientists and the American Petroleum Institute. There are explicit Exxon emails discussing it from the 70s. They’ve had so much time to transition. The only argument against renewables were the economics of them, but over the past few years that has shifted and now they’re cheaper than fossil fuels. So now I don’t see any arguments for not getting on board. We’ll need some fossil fuels for the time being as baseload and top-up power (renewables being intermittent and all), but there’s no excuse for new fossil fuel projects
I sympathize with power plants that are the lifeline of some town/community. But there are humane ways to deal with shutting those down too. Like WA did with Centralia and how the IRA gives increasing tax credits for projects that colocate/hire from existing fossil fuel sites
Couldn't agree more. As soon as it's cheaper, there is no more reason to push back. Just put the panels on roofs and on un-farmable land and benefit. Lots of good jobs for linemen and such.
I guess power companies will follow the economics and keep installing more solar and such. We only need individuals to be onboard enough that they don't elect people to hamstring it. Let the economy do it's thing
The only people with interest in hindering progress are fossil fuel execs and their goons
And folks with jobs in fossil fuels, I would presume. I mean, we can use them as lineman and such, but the uncertainty around job loss and retraining I'm sure motivates people to try to keep fossil fuels around longer than they are needed.
True, and them. Although it’s dirty work. I understand that it sucks to change jobs, but it’s like poisoning the environment and citizens around them? Like their children. Ugh
Totally agree. Economics and sustainability of it aside, it literally poisons them and us.
Well this thread has changed topics already, but just chiming in to say that I use Fidelity for everything and have no complaints. 401ks, Roth IRA, Individual, even some crypto, all in a single portal 💯 They also have brick and mortar locations nearby which is nice if you ever want to meet with someone in person to discuss something.
Wow had no idea they had brick and mortar or crypto! That’s cool
I guess we’re all complicit and at risk of financial collapse oh my god
Be warned, the support for crypto is cool but it's not that cool. They haven't implemented the ability to move the coins you buy off the platform yet. So, it might as well just be a fund that tracks the price of bitcoin. I have a balance on there but plan on getting rid of it. I use Coinbase.
I guess we’re all complicit and at risk of financial collapse oh my godYeah, appears that way 😬
I wonder if they offset their risk by also having ownership of disaster recovery/relief companies, contracted with the government of course
@spkaplan if only your 401k is in Fidelity, where are your other accounts? IRA? 529? Normal taxable accounts?
Everything else is in Vanguard, except a small account to play around with (also brokerage) in Robinhood.
Gotcha thanks. Opening a 529 is just as easy as opening any other account?
Yeah, pretty much. You have to choose which state you want your 529 in, b/c they are administered by states and different states have different benefits.
Texas et al. v. BlackRock, Inc. et al is kind of interesting. A group of 11 states led by Texas allege that institutional investors BlackRock, Vanguard, and State Street violated antitrust laws by collectively using their shareholdings in domestic coal producers to reduce coal output. Texas et al argues that this, plus the subsequent rise in retail energy prices, was not the workings of the free market, but rather an artificial suppression of coal generation by the investment managers in service of their own carbon emission goals.
So… Vanguard tries to reduce even just a little bit the harm of their fossil fuel holdings and immediately gets sued lolsob this is why we can’t have nice things
Edit: easier to read HTML version
Ah, interesting. I'm not familiar with antitrust as applied to shareholders (vanguard, etc... in this case). Where is the line in the antitrust sand that they crossed. In general I think of shareholders as being allowed to put pressure on companies they own shares in, but it must cross a line at some point, whether it is them being too large, or working together...?
That was my initial thought as well, like why wouldn’t a big shareholder exert influence
I started skimming in the second half of the doc, it was long, so I might have missed the main argument. Maybe there was some evidence of collusion between the investors when they were influencing competing energy companies? I’d have to go read the latter parts of the doc more carefully
Ah, their investments in other companies, that could be another line in the sand. Good idea. Can AI extract the argument from the doc for you?
Have you considered using esg funds like ESGV? Seems like VTI, excluding fossil fuels, tobacoo, etc...
Sigh I guess I could but I like to keep it old school no ai
lol that’s odd I thought the whole alphabet was supposed to be available
Have you considered using esg funds like ESGV? Seems like VTI, excluding fossil fuels, tobacoo, etc...
Not really, it only crossed my mind once I came across the fossil fuel asset numbers I shared at the beginning of the thread. Since then I’ve bookmarked some links though, need to come back to consider more seriously
Investing:
- Fossil Free Funds. Part of the Invest Your Values project, offering other value-driven products e.g. Deforestation Free Funds, Gender Equality Funds, etc.
- Sphere 500 Climate Fund - top 500 US companies minus the fossil ones
- Direct Indexing
Misc personal finance
- bank for good: switch to these fossil-free banks
- Green America - Finances
- Green America - Responsible Credit Card Options
- Move Your Money Workbook (google doc)
My motivation for asking is if the brokerages can't do it, maybe individuals can, by not putting their money in funds that dont invest in those companies in the first place
Oh I think so? I think that’s what fossilfreefunds.org and oursphere.org try to educate people on. Still need to read up on what direct indexing is
Wow, you read my mind. I'm sitting in a kids play museum thing and Gemma is off playing and I was like "it would be awesome if there was someone on slack to chat with or point me at something interesting", and then ping!
This would be banks lending your money out to high carbon emitters? Not the carbon footprint of the bank itself I presume?
Yeah that’s my understanding. The financing of fossil fuels via your deposits
Cool that they have a "green banks" list. If any are fully online and good UX, I'd consider the move
I guess fully online isn't a requirement, but high yields savings, and all services also available online
Same! I’ve been meaning to leave BOA forever but been lazy. This is the push I need
They don't have brokerages like vanguard. That would be a natural extension it seems
Why companies can't implement features as fast as I think of them, I will never understand
lol they know how to let us down that’s for sure
Who doesn't like a simple red, yellow, green categorization so I don't have to think 😆
In investigatinginclimatechaos, what is the meaning of the "# of shares" metric in the table? Is that the number of shares the brokerage owns of non-green companies? If so, is that in the form of indexes with customer funds, or ...? Would buying individual stocks via the same brokerage alleviate the issue?
Ally Bank is listed on bankforgood.org… I guess they have a fossil-free commitment?
I think the share is just the $ equity in a company/industry. From the methodology:
You can see a further breakdown by clicking on the institution e.g. Vanguard
If so, is that in the form of indexes with customer funds, or ...? Would buying individual stocks via the same brokerage alleviate the issue?Good questions. I am not sure at the moment
Ahhh It's a hyperlink! I'm on mobile and I knew so was probably missing something obvious like that
It must be because I’m not using any service of theirs where they invest my money for me
If the index is the "problem", it's easier than switching brokerages, except having to sell and realize gains would suck
and yeah the transaction is the annoying part. if only there was an in-kind transfer for something like this
I guess new savings could go to it, and one could stop auto reinvesting dividends.
Heading home, so back on parent duty. Have a good Christmas and new year if we don't cross paths on slack before then!
Even with those lofty targets, 71% of Gen Z respondents said they expected to achieve financial success in their lifetimes
Life is gonna hit them hard
https://www.axios.com/2024/11/22/boomers-gen-z-millennials-financial-success
The generation who grew up seeing people on social media rather than the people around them
I really think if we could go back in time and prevent social media, we’d be better off
I don’t know why phones aren’t banned in schools
It seemed to be catching on, but I'd love to see stats showing adoption of that
Oh I guess more than a dozen other states have done this LOL shows you what know
from what I understandi just haven’t taken much time to understand them. you buy 100 shares at a time at some date in the future something something strike price idk
Sometimes your employer will have an arrangement where they will buy the stock back from you during certain trading windows. This is the straight forward and easy way to exercise options because the stock never really ends up in your hands.
Otherwise, it's a bit more complicated because you have to find a buyer. If your options have vested and are available to exercise, you might be able to buy 100 shares at $50, then sell them for whatever they are worth to the buyer, which could be $25 or $100. Only exercise the option if you have a buyer for $100...
Never gone through the process myself though, this is just what I've picked up. Epic has options, but they aren't publicly traded so I'm not really sure how it works. I'm getting more info on that from a financial advisor guy hopefully soon so I'll let you guys know!
I'm playing around with them with a small amount of money just to understand them better and learn. Things are slow in December at work lol
@brandon sounds like you are describing employer stock options granted/available as part of a compensation package. Pretty sure I can go to Vanguard right now and buy some options for tesla/amzn/whatever
Oh.... yes, thank you. I'm totally talking about employee stock options, not options options. Those always sounded like gambling to me.
I think they are more-or-less the same financial instrument? Just with different rules? Idk for sure because I have never had them from my company
I think they are the same instrument. Main difference is likely that Epic options are on private shares, so finding buyers is harder
Buying/selling options of public companies is largely the as easy as buying/selling shares
Does anyone else have trouble, psychology, putting more into btc at 100k?
I bought ~2 btc around $60k. I sold a bit off at some point
I try not to really think about it. All of my investments including BTC are on a schedule and I rely on DCA to do it's thing. That being said, if I start thinking about it then yeah, I would probably hesitate since I'm pretty confident there will be a cheaper buying opportunity again in the future.
woah woah woah “cheaper buying opportunity” are you not a believer?
@brandon when is the optimal selling point then for the current cycle?
Still trying to figure that out lolsob I don't think we're there yet, but I don't know anything. It's all up and down. A true believer will never sell 🦸
And $60k sounds cheap right now, but there has also been an opportunity to buy at $16k since then (less than 2 years ago!)
Yeah, 60k used to seem so expensive 😄 It's crazy how quickly things change.
I bought most of my BTC around 40k, so having trouble with the idea of putting in more. Also, if it goes to 200k-500k, I think I'll be happy with the just holding what I have now.
But then I think, if I'm going to hold if for decades, it's very likely to be way higher than 100k, so just buy more.
if it goes to 200k-500kHow much confidence do you have that it will?
$16k since then (less than 2 years ago!)Yeah, this is a wild fact. I can’t remember if this occurred before or after I bought mine
No idea on the time frame, and no idea how to put a % probability to it. The argument I like is that so much $ will be inherited by our generation from boomers over the next 10-20 years, and if even s small % of that gets put into BTC by our generation, just for a sake of diversification, that is a lot of inflows to BTC
Hmm. That’s an interesting line of thought. I haven’t spent barely any time considering boomer money inheritance. Do we have a sense of the magnitude/volume?
Yeah, this is a wild fact. I can’t remember if this occurred before or after I bought minePretty sure you bought your BTC back in 2020/2021 during those other bull runs. That's when we were really into crypto and you were doing all of the alt coin stuff.
can’t believe me/my parents are not getting any of that
inherited by our generationwouldn’t it be inherited by our parents generation? i guess it depends on their age. my grandparents on my moms side are still alive
Rough numbers: US life expectancy is ~79yo. If your parent is 30 years older than you, then in 20 years from now, our parents would be 80 (i.e. dead).
So it might take 20 years I guess before, but some will happen before that.
but they don’t matter in terms of contributing to the $75T
When I think about my siblings and cousins, I don’t think $BTC
But if they go to a financial advisor, that financial advisor might recommend they put 1% into BTC, especially with the acceptance of BTC by instituions, creation of BTC ETFs, etc... That's the argument I have heard.
Anyway... who knows 🤷 It will be interesting to see what happens to BTC regardless. Glad we all have some to enjoy the ride
Yeah the institutional BTC was all the rage when I was feasting on the hopium. If all goes to plan, they will ask me for advice instead of a financial advisor
Agreed! I do like the thinking wrt boomer money moving to younger hands. I’m gonna read up on this topic
Does anyone know anything about gifting money/assets in a tax efficient manner? Like if I want to gift $$$$ or assets (transfering ownership of the account) this Christmas are there good or bad ways one can do it?
Didn’t even know there was a gift limit. Probably not a single instance of gifting over the amount but could breach it across multiple recipients
if it's under 18k per recipient per year, it's tax free. But double check me 🙂
Hmm. Fuck. What paperwork would I need do you know? I paid off my sisters student loans earlier this year and it was exactly $18k. But it was a direct wire to her loan provider. Did not go through my sisters accounts
If you're AT 18k, it looks like you're good. Only need to return over 18k
Ohh I misunderstood. These aren’t tax deductible under $18k, they’re just not taxed. Like, if I gave her $20k, she would have to pay taxes on that? Or I would?
chatgpt says: gift tax return (IRS Form 709)
I guess there is a lifetime gift tax exemtption to factor in:
Lifetime Gift Tax Exemption:
Even if you file Form 709, you won't owe gift tax unless your total lifetime gifts exceed the exemption limit, which is $13.61 million per individual as of 2024.
Gifts exceeding the annual exclusion are deducted from your lifetime exemption, so unless your cumulative gifts surpass this threshold, no taxes will be owed—just paperwork.
Maybe there is someway to classify it as a chartiable donation, but probably needs to be a legal charity, but that's beyond my pay grade
Many states offer tax benefits for 529 plan contributions, such as deductions or credits, but the specifics vary. Key points:But...
States without income tax (e.g., Florida, Texas, Washington) do not offer tax deductions or credits, as there’s no state income tax to deduct against.
I wonder if we had state income tax, if you could have had her open a 529 for herself and then contributed to the 529 and she immediatly uses the funds to pay off her loans 🤔
She lives in WI. Maybe she could have? I don’t know
This is my first year hiring someone to do my taxes, b/c I hope they find things like this that make up for the few hundred for them to file the taxes.
I guess it would be me in WA wanting any tax credit
Oh man I want to hire someone so bad. How’d you find them?
And having kids, finding the time to do taxes is harder. That pushed me over the edge.
Yep makes sense. Looking forward to hearing how it goes! I’d be tempted to do my own taxes and compare the results of the person I hired
I just found a local place (I think it's like 2 people) (good Google reviews) who's website said they did tax filing and also tax planning. My main worry was someone would just file my taxes but not look for optimizations, etc... I did an initial call w/ them to explain my financial life and asked what else I could do. Nothing special, but the convo gave me the confidence they won't just blindly file what I give them, but will actually review it and point out if I could do something better. I also asked if I can email them randomly during the year with a tax-related question to get their advice.
They already caught one thing I missed related to home energy tax credits on the mini split heat pumps I installed. When I read the IRS webpage I interpreted in a way such that I didn't qualify for the tax credit, but she said I do. So that will already get me about $1500 off my taxes.
I figured I would need to quiz someone on RSUs, ESPP, and backdoor roths
No. They’re the shady defense / analytics company right?
Yeah, Petrer Thiel is a co-founder.
I'm trying to understand the company better. They've been moving more into the commercial space, so there is more material online to see what they do now, since they're not really able to advertise their gov work as easily.
What I've learned:
- They ship their software into the gov/enterprises' DC/cloud accounts.
- There's some upfront work to build a data model (i.e. "ontology") of the enterprises' data. Then Palantir's products (Gotham for gov and Foundry for enterprise) can do powerful data analysis, ML, and actions ontop of the ontology.
Some videos on youtube that sorta show this. Some of the examples are pretty cool.
Anyway, just poking around 🤷
Lame. Everything should be optionally remote. Well, almost everything
I finally got around to freezing my credit. It is very quick. I recommend doing it.
Hmm I feel like I’m missing some context. What’s the motivation here?
Ah, avoid someone wrecking your credit if they were to steal your identity
What’s the downside to keeping it frozen all the time?
None. You just have to unfreeze it before you would have someone check your credit for a loan or something.
It keeps people from opening credit cards and loans in your name. Or they would also need to unfreeze your credit first.
Gotchaaa. Seems like credit should maybe be frozen by default then?
It takes a few minutes to create an account with each of the three credit bureaus, and then it's just a click or two to freeze your credit.
One of the credit bureaus actually took care of notifying the other two for me which was nice.
Do I recall there being a fee if you want to freeze your credit for more than a year? I agree that having it frozen by default seems like a great idea, but it seems like they make that difficult.
1% transfer match for IRAs to robinhood and 3% contribution match is tempting. Wdyt? IRAs, being buy and hold (in my case), I'm less concerned about Robinhood's GameStop trading debacle...but maybe I shouldn't trust them yet. I don't know.
It's a nice offer I guess. For me, I don't think it warrants moving my IRA to a new platform. I like having everything in one place. Also, the benefit is a flat contribution incentive that provides at most $210/year. It's not nothing, but for me, it's not worth the headache. However, if you have a large balance in an IRA account from previous 401k balances or something, I can see how the 1% transfer match could be enticing!
Subscription Fee: Also, I think it's worth noting that the 3% contribution match is only for Robinhood Gold subscribers so there is a subscription fee associated with that perk. Otherwise, it's just 1%. If you are already paying them the subscription fee, that's not a big deal. However, you do need to maintain the subscription for at least a year after your first match.
Lock-in: You also have to hold the account for 5 years or they take the match back. This appears to be a rolling policy so it sort of locks you into the platform. The match you receive today isn't actually yours for five years. Additionally, if you want to transfer the IRA to another platform down the road, there is a $100 transfer fee.
Contribution Limit: It's interesting that the contribution match doesn't contribute to your IRA contribution limit. That's actually pretty cool! Kind of works similar to employer match on your 401k. Just make sure to keep this in mind when calculating your combined contributions which has a limit of $70k across all accounts.
Wow, so thoughtful! Yeah, it's not a mind-blowing deal, which makes it a tricky call. I am already spread out over so many platforms, it wouldn't make a big difference for me to have one more lol. 210 from the 3% match minus the 60/year for gold is 150/yeah, which is something. The 1% transfer match is enticing, since I could get it for both Steph's IRA and mine. I'm not won over yet though
Excellent analysis @brandon, hard to disagree, at least for my situation
Fun! I wonder if it is more like taxes/accounting or more like public markets, or... I'll check it out
It's been a good time to be invested in the market, both crypto and stocks 🤑
Do any of ya'll use Sofi, or have a postive or negative impression of it one way or another?
I'm poking around and am pretty impressed. They're relatively new (only 5 years with their bank license). They started out with just student loan refi's, but have quickly expanded to most newbie financial instruments. I'm shopping for a heloc, which led me to them. If I wasn't with ally, I could see going with sofi for online banking
Yeah I only have heard of them in the context of like new consumer fintech type of company
Yeah, pretty much. Seems like a good set of services if you're starting out and want to do it all online.
They follow Goldman Sachs and Wells Fargo last month. Banking makes you suicidal I guess
Has anyone successfully linked their external accounts to their Fidelity dashboard? It’s completely falling over for every account I’ve tried to connect actually I was able to connect some, only Vanguard is being problematic
lol 3-5pm, daily?! wonder what this could be about
If anyone is curious what an overnight hospital admission + appendix removal costs. $6 one ibuprofen
Yes I am! Thank you. My appendix just thought it was time for me to go…
It was a lowkey experience. On the third day of sharp pain in my lower right abdomen area whenever I tried to stand up straight or otherwise fully extend my back, I decided to look up my symptoms. The internet said go to the ER, so I did, and they took that puppy out. Acute appendicitis
I walked home from the hospital after my surgery. It was fine
Wow! So glad you went in and they got it out. Is there much of a recovery?
Recovery was tylenol and ibuprofen for a couple days afterwards. Mix in some breathing exercises and walking (something about reactivating the systems knocked out by the anesthesia), and no lifting anything more than 5lbs for a couple weeks. I was surprised at how trivial the operation seemed to be. Very routine I guess, and just a couple small incisions where they snake a camera and hook through to pull it out. I have like 3-4 small cuts and that’s it. Modern medicine is a gift!
Yeah, western medicine is good at resolving acute issues, and this is a great example
For sure. I’ve been telling people to do elective surgery to remove their appendix since it was so easy lol
I set up a separate brokerage account with a fixed amount of funds to indulge my less Boglehead-compliant investing impulses. Do any of you do something similar, or are you just better at exercising restraint than I am?
I haven't really done this personally. Haven't really gotten that itch, although it has been fun owning MSFT stock and tracking it's price and the news around it. I'll miss it when it's gone.
I think that's a smart way to manage it though. Keep it separate 👍
When I’ve gotten that itch, I’ve usually just used funds in my IRA because then whatever happens I don’t need to report taxes
But at the time my IRA was kinda small so it was limited
Good call doing it in your IRA. I would, but I have long term holdings in there that I don't want to let go.
@brandon is your msft holdings from RSUs? Good call holding it. I don't have enough confidence in Salesforce to hold my shares
Yeah, they were from RSUs that I got lazy about selling. Then it was just doing so well that I never did!
Msft seems like they can innovate and aren't going anywhere, so I'd probably hold some of them as well.
Yeah this is one of the better articles I've seen on tech compensation. Accurately breaking down the different components (base/bonus/equity) and tiers of companies. Actually good analysis
I'll probably read through it thoroughly later today. Good sauna reading material.
Oh not yet. I started going to a gym with a sauna so I could add that to my gym routine and ensure I would actually use it. So far, I've used it after all gym sessions, and I love it. So I'm almost definitely going to buy one when I have the time to install it. And when I feel like I have 5k burning a hole in my pocket
oh gotcha lol well still a sauna is nice either way!
Yeah, it's been great. It is nice to either just meditate or read something like this article that I otherwise might not find/make the time to read.
Great article! I've only reviewed the graphics so far but they are so concise and easy to digest. Man, the SWE market is just amazing, isn't it?
Suppose you just entered retirement three months ago. What do you do?
I mean, I wouldn't do anything. I'd just stick to my plan and continue pulling out small amounts as needed.
Because I can tell you right now my portfolio will not be 1% bonds in retirement
Total market index fund over the past 5 years. It might be too early to say stocks are down. DCA!
Yeah, we're not even in correction territory. But it feels like it! lol
i am still auto-investing each week despite no income. i was gonna slow down but with this little dip i don't think i should
ohhhh! Yeah, this drawdown is small, don't worry 🙂 It's not like the spy is down 10+% or anything...yet
That's interesting. Were your paychecks just accumulating in your checking account since the auto invested amount didn't scale with your income? I've been trying to keep my auto investment values updated to pull excess cash out of my checking account asap so it doesn't accumulate. So I would personally need to turn those off if I stopped having an income.
Yes, my auto-investing was fixed $$$$. But also I got lazy with a couple of RSU vests and forgot to move their proceeds to vanguard for reinvesting
Basically the second half of this was not done:
- RSU vests in Schwab
- Sell RSUs in Schwab
- Cash proceeds settles in my Schwab account
- Transfer cash from Schwab to checking account
- Transfer cash from checking to Vanguard
- Buy assets in Vanguard
Too many steps
Yeah, that's a lot of steps. Reminds me why I have everything in one place.
good for you. hopefully your next company uses the same brokerage for your rsus and 401k
Yeah, one of my criteria for my next job offer will be that my employer uses fidelity as their brokerage
Circuit Breaker Triggered in Japan for Stock Futures Trading ()
if it's the end of the world, guess what? then we're all screwed, so don't worry about losing all your money
though i'm surprised to hear this from you keenin. i thought you exited the market long ago
yeah. well. the market will continue to drop for the foreseeable future
what you buy today will be worth less next week etc etc so no need to rush
what you buy today will be worth less next week etc etc so no need to rushyou must be confidently exiting the market then?
one tweet can fix it all though
i can only see that to a small extent. best course of action would be for the trump administration to be like just kidding everyone tariffs are canceled and we are returning to the status quo. but the market would still take years to recover. what we're seeing (in only the first three months of Trump 2.0, no less) is nothing short of a reshaping of the world order. USA has alienated its allies and trading partners. NATO, for the first time in history, is excluding the US from arms purchase programs. This is taking place in a time when the EU is preparing for a war with Russia, also caused by Trump abandoning allies. To add on, the Trump admin is currently heavily invested in annexing multiple members of NATO. Then of course the whole tarrif absurdity.
Trust has been broken. It takes years to restore. This sequence of events is no less meaningful than the fall of the soviet union. A reshaping of the global economy and society as we know it
you must be confidently exiting the market theni mean i'm absolutely not selling anything because that would just be taking large losses for no reason. but i have stopped my automated investing
The only way I can see a halting of the bleeding and then a relatively quick (all things considered) recovery is if Trump resigns. That's the only way the US can start to rebuild trust again. We've lost our soft power and political capital but hopefully we can become reliable trade partners again.
Unfortunately though Trump is talking about ways to stay for a third term, not resign
This sequence of events is no less meaningful than the fall of the soviet unionOkay, let's hold our butts here for a second - this is a wild claim. These two separate series of events are comparing apples to oranges, regardless if they have the similar impact (communist nation vs capitalist nation to being with). I'm also only aware of him wanting to annex Greenland, but that's a fair point.
New World Order is interesting... and I don't see the EU as a part of this new order. It is clearly China, India (and southeast asia/malaysia), Russia (tbd), and hopefully the USA. I think Trump is trying to position himself to be friends with the new emerging powers.
This is taking place in a time when the EU is preparing for a war with RussiaSounds like you are eluding to WW3 happening and the USA positioning ourselves as 'not being involved'. I don't think that sounds like a bad thing? I hate to say it, but if war happens it is best for the USA to not be involved for multiple reasons.
this is a wild claimHow so? Trump has upended the relationships and international systems that have been in place since the end of WW2. Nearly 75 years. This could be even more meaningful than the fall of USSR.
communist nation vs capitalist nationI don't see how this is relevant. Also, despite the commonly used communist label, the soviet union economy/society is more accurately described as state capitalism.
only aware of him wanting to annex GreenlandHe has talked about Canada as well, stating it should be the "51st state"
WW3 happening and the USA positioning ourselves as 'not being involved'. I don't think that sounds like a bad thing?Personally, I find this sort of isolationist thinking to be quite short sighted. Not only from a morality basis, but from a very pragmatic national interest basis. The value of global soft power is hard to understate. Hard power, for lack of a better term, is something I very much am uncomfortable with but even still I can admit to how it has benefited us and our quality of life here in the states. It serves us greatly to be trusted and to have the influence we have historically had. It also is quite beneficial to have to deal with fewer Putins and more friendly, if not frustrated, western leaders
Trump has upended the relationships and international systemsWhich can all go back in place in 4 years with a new president and new trust and new relationships. One of the bonuses of being able to elect a new president. As close to a clean slate as possible. I think it is too early to say definitively if this is "... more meaningful than the fall of USSR." lol you can't just say shit. You weren't even born yet when the USSR fell. You have no idea what it was like when that happened. I understand what you are getting at, but, with all due respect, you can't just make claims like that and expect them to be taken seriously.
I don't see how this is relevanthow so? literally a leading cause of the USSR falling is it being a mismanaged communist nation. Two very different economic models that may play out very differently if this is "... more meaningful than the fall of USSR."
He has talked about Canada as well, stating it should be the "51st state"well he's not wrong. get those silly canadians in here.
I agree with your stance on soft and hard power. But what I hear you saying is, "I like when the USA uses our power to stop bad guys like Russia, but I don't like it when we go into Iraq/afghanistan/vietnam/etc." The two are one in the same though.
I was also just more saying it's beneficial to us to not be in a war, let europe blow themselves up, and we come in and clean up - a la ww2.
Yeah ha ha imagine 😅I was actually thinking of my parents, but I guess you're in the same situation 😅
oh your parents are three months out?? shit dude
I think my Mom is done. I could see my Dad pivoting though depending on how things go I guess.
Which can all go back in place in 4 years...If Trump resigned today and all of his actions reverted immediately, then maybe in four years time we would see a recovery to the former status quo - maybe. The reality is that the alliances and agreements nations have with one another take years to formalize. General trust building takes even longer. It's so easy to lose trust, and that's exactly what Trump has done. Besides, we know he's not resigning today.
What we have in only the first 2-3 months of Trump 2.0 is willful idiocy that will be felt for a long time, let alone the impact of the remainder of his tenure.
... with a new president and new trust and new relationships.Why are you so sure we will have a new president in four years? Trump has long said we'll never need to vote again and he will be pursuing more terms. He said that in his first term, during his campaign for his second term, and now as recently as within this past month as president he has said that him and his team are looking into that. His staff has voiced support for this. This is a man who has quite literally tried to overturn fair and free election results and still denies that he ever lost! Why do you think this is business as usual?
I think it is too early to say definitively if this is "... more meaningful than the fall of USSR." lol you can't just say shit. You weren't even born yet when the USSR fell. You have no idea what it was like when that happened.I don't need to have been born to know how impactful the fall of the soviet union was. What a dumb take. Any alien casually monitoring earth would know how impactful it was. Look at any trade and economic measures, plot them on a chart by time, and you'll see the impact for yourself.
I'm not just "saying shit." Any lucid adult with eyes and ears should be able to observe the world around them and draw the same conclusions. USSR fell decades ago. NATO and western alliances and the global liberal economy had outlived the USSR. It will have a bigger impact when it breaks.
how so? literally a leading cause of the USSR falling is it being a mismanaged communist nation.We're not communicating on something here. The USSR failing was a huge boon to global trade and economy. From that sense, it was really really good. I am saying that everything the current Trump admin has done / is doing will have just as large of an impact, only negative impact rather than positive. I'm not talking about what led to the USSR falling, I am talking about the magnitude of its impact on ours / the global economy - independent of how it fell in the first place.
"I like when the USA uses our power to stop bad guys like Russia, but I don't like it when we go into Iraq/afghanistan/vietnam/etc."Let's take a deep breath and give an honest look at these very different situations.
- Russia. Russia invades our allies. Allies whom we have an agreement with that explicitly says we will come to their aid in case they are invaded. This alone is enough of a reason why we should be helping and in fact we could have ended it already if we actually committed to it. There is also a moral component as well, as people are losing lives because of Putin's small dick energy.
- The middle east. The only reason we have ever been over there is to control the supply of oil for us. We aren't defending an allied nation from an enemy. We are extracting other countries resources. That's it.
- Vietnam. Another excellent example of fucking idiocy. We again were not defending an allied nation from an enemy invader. We were riding a delusional paranoia about China communism conquering the world. Even the US presidents (yes plural, it was decades long) know it was fucking stupid. LBJ (in)famously said "this fucken war is gonna end me"
So yeah, I do not like when we have invaded the middle east or vietnam, or have orchestrated bloody coups of democratic south american countries, or when we dropped bombs in Laos that are still blowing up children today. And I do not like when our President is a Putin simp who doesn't hold up our end of agreements with our allies.
@keenin love you man hope i didnt come off too strong
first 2-3 months of Trump 2.0 is willful idiocy100% agree, but I don't think it is crazy to think that a new president can fix things as quickly as Trump ruined them. This is even more realistic if you think just economically speaking. I'm not saying it's likely, but a new president (or even Trump) can start acting very favorably to nations and enact favorable policies to correct the economy in short time. Again, not likely, but not impossible.
Why are you so sure we will have a new president in four years?Because I don't believe if the country continues this way for four more years Trump will be re-elected. That's not a wild thought. He says it, so of course his staff support it. I don't think that means it will happen. Why are you so sure he will be president for the remainder of his life, cause you're def coming off as believing that. I don't think it's business as usual, but I also think it's a bit extreme to immediately jump to authoritarian rule just because he says he wants it.
The USSR failing was a huge boon to global trade and economy.To some global trade, sure. To former Soviet States they crashed hard. Map this to the current situation how you will. Looking at NATO, the US has been providing more military defense and $$ than any other NATO nation. Many European nations spend below the 2% GDP target set by NATO for defense budgets, relying on the US to provide that safety. If we take our safety and go home, European nations will need to actually defend themselves adequately and spend some money on military. Europeans are waking up realizing their taxes will be higher because they have to spend that own money on defense now.
"Western Alliances"... yea sure to an extent, EU is guzzling russian oil like mad.
That is fair, the cause and consequence of USSR falling are different, but I feel the effects are different because of that. We can disagree here, that is fine.
Russia|The middle east|VietnamAll those instances were to stop an invading force (communists, dictators, etc.) from coming in and taking over those regions. What is the difference between that and Ukraine?
Those were "hard powers". Our "Soft powers" are how much we are spending on defense and lending that to NATO nations. Another soft power, getting off topic, is our US AID that we give to countries.
All the discussion around money and spending amounts by different countries in NATO is just straight up FUD meant to distract you from more important matters. Who fucking cares if NATO countries are spending 1.8% of their GDP instead of 2%? Good news: now that the USA has fucked right off, the EU countries are reportedly considering raising their spend to 3% of their GDP! Ooohhh ahhh wowww utopia. I'm fucking cumming rainbows at the thought of it.
🌈 Let's keep things in perspective. 🌈
The decision to spend the $60B/year on helping Ukraine was overall a very good investment. $60B is not nothing, but at the same time it actually is extremely little money all things considered. With it, we empowered Ukraine to not only defend itself, but straight up embarrass Russia - who, I'll remind you, is actively hostile towards us - in front of the whole world. We've taken out like a third of their kinetic power, a third of their tanks, and much of their navy. And in doing so, we continued to uphold the formal agreement we made to defend Ukraine in case they were attacked.
That's all without any boots on the ground!
That $60B is less than 10% of our military budget. Or, equally, it's only 1.3% of the overall federal budget of ~$4.5T. Already not a lot, but going even further, we actually got most of that money back! Over 70% flowed back to the US, in the form of contracts/sales for weapon manufacturers largely in red states. So I really don't get all this bitching.
Same goes for USAID spending. So fucking short sighted all these people getting pissy over trivial amounts of money. You know much we were spending on USAID every year? 0.6% of our budget. Half a percent! Towards things like fighting the spread of diseases, so, you know, we don't have to fight them here.
Open your eyes man. The fucking Trump tax cuts he's planning are estimated to raise the deficit by $800B! Stop getting upset over pennies that actually benefit both us and others around the world, and get upset about the fucking theft going on right at home.
(Not to mention the moral story of Putin being a murderous autocrat.)
Cool. You definitely have more information on this. I’ll take your word for it. All I can say is, yea the policies suck, idk if they will work long term or what trumps long term plan is, but I’m trying to be overall optimistic. I want the best for America and other countries**, but in the mean time I’m not gonna get all emotional over things I have very little control over.
Cool. Glad we all the want the best. Sorry for getting emotional. This is the third time I've had this conversation where someone is citing "NATO GDP" and "USAID spending" as legitimate problem areas that justify what's going on. I guess three is my limit.
https://x.com/bryan_johnson/status/1910043079098380319?t=Zzb8zndGrpR4EZ5PcY48Vw&s=19
Actually, today your light should be green! Took a peek at the watchlist earlier and was pleasantly surprised! 🫣 SP500 is up almost 10% today!
🔔 Crisis is over everybody! It's safe to come out! 🔔 Based on my analysis we should be at an all time high within the week!
Yeah, I was just going to start researching why the stock market had recovered. I haven't looked at the news all day. Tariffs were reversed already?!
Wow, look at that. All tariffs paused for 90 days, except China which is still increasing by 125%. Apparently trump said people were getting a little too skittish so he backed off, very surprised to hear that. However, they did say that they have over 75 countries reaching out to negotiate trade deals, so I suppose it definitely worked to a certain extent!
The market can handle 10% tarrifsWhat do you mean exactly by this statement?
The reciprocal tarriffs made it too difficult for companies, analysts, and money managers to forecast costs, and thus profits, and thus P/E's, and thus stock prices. 10% across the board, except china, is something they can actually do the math on. The other part being that it doesn't blow up input costs and thus erode margins or increase costs.
This is wild that he told us to buy right before reversing the tarrifs :D
Yeah, isn't market manipulation a thing? lol I guess maybe that is only a problem when he's benefiting himself? Who knows anymore... lolsob
Yeah, I didn't have that much cash on hand either. I decided not to participate yesterday though because I didn't want to get sucked in to the drama even more, and I honestly didn't know what was going to happen next. I decided to just stick with my DCA strategy.
It kind of sucks for all of the average joes that panic sold in the past week though. I'm guessing a lot of people lost money, and a lot of the gains were gobbled up by trading firms on the way back up.
I honestly didn't know what was going to happen nextno one did 😄
I hope not many normal people didn't sell. Definitely most of the selling would be algos and money managers and day traders, b/c they care about short term numbers.
I honestly didn't know what was going to happen next
no one did 😄i was preparing (mentally) for this to take months at least
Yeah, same. I expected him to be a lot more hard headed about the reversal, since he really doesn't want to give the impression that he's bluffing. I guess he made his point though and it's still only a "pause".
Yeah, it will give them time to "make deals" and likely the tarriffs will never get back to those levels, at least in almost all cases/countries
Yeah, it will give them time to "make deals" and likely the tarriffs will never get back to those levels, at least in almost all cases/countriesthis guy… he politiks
What do you think is meant by Treasury Secretary Bessent's comments about how retirees and those about to retire do not care about market fluctuations? Is he confused? Am I confused?
Video (comment is at the 4m15s mark): video
Context-highlighted transcript for those who prefer reading: transcript
He goes on to talk about not being in the market, but being in a 401k, a confusing sentence on its own. He then makes comments about 60/40 "accounts" I can only assume heavy bond accounts? I thought those saw movement too so maybe you can help me understand.
He says retirees have a long term view of the market, which is true to an (extreme) extent I guess...
He must be referring to as you get closer to retiring, you should have bond-heavy allocation.
By just reading what you said with zero context, I think he is trying to quell uncertainty and doubt.
Also what Sam said - that actually makes logical sense compared to my conspiracies.
tbf he is correct. My mom is like 50/50 bonds and wasn't really effected by the market fluctuations we recently witnessed
same, my mom has vanguard advsior managing her money. she is 95% bonds b/c she is retiring in June
That's the only sane interpretation I think. I think your mom should talk to her advisor though. The bond market is not safe from these shenanigans. The 10yr treasury yield has risen like >12% since the start of this month, presumably from foreign countries selling
Yup, 60/40 is just an investing strategy. People who are about to retire aren't carrying 100% stocks so they aren't as concerned with short term market fluctuations. And yes, bond futures plummeting was the main reason for the tariff reversal. Historically, the world has been comfortable purchasing US federal debt (bonds) even during market downturns. It demonstrates confidence in the long term success of the country regardless of current conditions. When the world's confidence wavered, Trump balked.
And this aligns with what you see in a typical target date fund as well, so it seems reasonable to say a lot of 401k accounts fit this build.
Vanguard Target Fund 2025
(In this case it's actually closer to 50/50)
I'm finally applying for wa state healthcare. The application process uses Experian for identity verification and a "soft inquiry" will be placed on my Experian credit report, remaining visible for 25 months.
Questions:
- Should I freeze my credit before doing the WA healthcare application?
- What does soft inquiry really mean anyway and does it matter?
i vow to never look at my credit score ever again
"reject society, return to nature" is the quote